Posted on 06/29/2005 5:49:30 AM PDT by Pharmboy
If this turns out like I think, I'm going to apply for a gambling casino license.
"Incisive Plans" by the Extractors
"Scaling the Root Canal" by MolarMan
"Novacaine Plea" by the Scream
"Waiting Room Blues" by The Past Tense
and "Impacted Wisdom" by Anita Toothpuld
Sorry man, no records of DB Cooper in my collection.
Good point. As a matter of fact, I just did my Y chromosome analysis which traces right back to west European Cro Magnon Man. If Kennewick shares my haplotype on the Y, I see much green felt in my future.
"Legislation remains under consideration in Congress that would allow federally recognized tribes to claim ancient remains even if they cannot prove a link to a current tribe.''
We must make sure this legislation does not get passed. Please contact your congressman.
___
That's sad - suppressing knowledge that might harm an accepted theory. How totalitarian to try to "control the past" ala Big Brother. They'd just as soon shove this skeleton down the memory hole (if I remember 1984 correctly).
They were found by some guys I know that were trying to sneak into the hydroplane races drunk!
Sounds like they should be up for the Ignoble Prize for Anthropology...
They got lots of interviews, but that's about it. They found the skull part, threw it in the bushes, and went to the races anyway. They didn't come back with the cops until much later. :)
kennewick man, at the current time, is thought to be more japanese than european.
The Kenniwick man also does not have the shovel shaped incisors or other skull and teeth characteristics that would mark him as Japanese, Asian, or native American. He in fact has Caucasian characteristics and if you would would read several of the extracts based on the examination of the skull you would see that even with Archaeologists trying their best to find racial characteristics from any racial group but Caucasian the data suggests just what they don't want to find and are finally beginning to accept.
Taken from one of the extracts
"Cranial discrete data for eight variables in 20 world-wide samples provided a statistically significant discrimination (log-likelihood chi-square 24.93 at 7 d.f., p = 0.0008) of samples into "Amerindian" and "Non-Amerindian" groups. Under this method, Kennewick had a probability of 0.0000 for membership in Amerindians and 0.9998 for membership in Non-Amerindians. The procedure was repeated using dichotomized dental data. In this analysis, 44 samples were divided into Sinodont (including American Indians) and Sundadont groups. The discriminatory power of this method was significant (log-likelihood chi-square 43.360 with 7 d.f, p = 0.0001) for the dental data. Kennewick had a probability of 0.48460 for membership in the Sinodont group, 0.93769 for membership in the Sundadont group. The analysis was repeated using a third group, composed of Paleoindian and middle Holocene samples, in addition to the Sinodont and Sundadont populations. Early Holocene American samples were separated from the main east Asian dental patterns because they exhibit a mixture of features that occur in high frequency in both Sinodonts and Sundadonts (see Powell in press and Powell 1995). Based on this analysis, the Kennewick specimen had a posterior probability of 0.0055 for membership in Sinodonts, 0.5940 for membership in Sundadonts, and 0.4005 for membership in the early Holocene group. "
Too explain what is said here the Sinodont characteristics would be characteristics shared with Asian or Native American populations and the Sundadont characteristics would be those shared with Caucasian or African populations. (Some Polynesian populations are considered Sundadont as they are genetically linked to Caucasian populations)
In essence he can not be a member of the Japanese racial type which would be Sinodont.
post your source and link if possible please.
Oh and one more thing, if kennewick man eventually proves to be native indian, will you advocate moving all non indigenous people from north america ?
You can read the information on the National Park Service website dedicated to the Kenniwick Man... http://www.cr.nps.gov/aad/kennewick/
Why would I advocate any such thing? You really have some strange ideas. I advocate real scientific research rather than liberal biased, Political correct, mental masturbation.
Oh and when you read the extracts and they say that Kenniwick man has been deemed a Native American....remember that statement always has the additional tag "as according to NAGPRA". Basically he is a Native American because all remains from a certain time period and found in North America are considered "Native American" according to the law not because genetically they are related.
Me either. I read somewhere that his features suggest that he might be Ainu, which are native to the Japanese islands, and still exist there on the northern island of Hokkaido. I am sure that genetic testing will answer that question.
My point is that whether or not Kenniwick man is indian, caucasian or space alien, it makes no difference to you or anyone else regarding claims of indian tribes or regarding anything on any subject. That is the tribes will pursue their claims and the courts will rule as they have before and you will be against any rulings for the indians regardless of what happens with kennewick man.
Unfortunately when you read the scholarly work on the subject the Auni are picked only because they are Asian and not of a purely Caucasian racial grouping. In fact there is no physical evidence for the conclusion that the Ainu are related to the Kenniwick man other than pure supposition and the fact they have some Caucasian cranial features.
The skeleton actually resembles the Zalavar a Slavic race as much as it resembles the Auni. In fact after reading much of the data I came across this gem I would love to share and I quote
..."we can reject this hypothesis for the craniometric data, for cranial discrete traits, and for dental discrete traits."
Why is it rejected mainly because it doesn't support the conclusion that Kenniwick man is anything but Caucasion regardless if it is Polynesian Caucasian which they seem to want to reject out of hand also. In fact here is the crux of the matter and I again quote
"Although Kennewick exhibits some features that typically (but not exclusively) occur in modern American Whites (Caucasoids), these same features also occur in moderate to high frequency among Polynesian populations (Gill 1986). If the Ainu are considered to be "Caucasoids," as they were first described in 19th-century anthropological literature, this might explain reports of "Caucasoid" features in the Kennewick skull."
Basically we will accept any hypothesis for the origin of the skull except that it is of European or Caucasian origin. It's bad science made worse for making assumptions based merely on political expedience.
What has happened is that the scientists involved went to lengths to find one group of people who share physical traits with Kennewick man but who in no way can be considered Caucasian while dismissing every candidate that was Caucasian.
I clicked your link and could not find your evidence. What I found was the following:
FYI, Ainu is old japanese guy.
Conclusion
We were unable to obtain reliable ancient DNA amplification results from the Kennewick samples. This means that either (1) no original DNA was preserved in the bone samples transferred to our laboratory, or (2) original DNA was preserved in the bone samples but we were unable to extract it.
____________________________________________
Analysis of metric and nonmetric skeletal traits suggests various biological relationships or lack of them between the Kennewick remains and known human populations. Comparisons were made between the Kennewick remains and modern populations for which extensive sets of measurements exists. Comparison also between these remains and Native American remains known to come from archeological contexts dated to thousands of years ago, although in the latter case, Drs. Powell and Rose point out, relatively small numbers of remains are available for comparison. For these latter comparisons, the amount of statistical variation is greater and more quantitative manipulation of the data are necessary to assess similarities or differences, making conclusions more tentative. Powell and Rose did a comparative analysis of metric and nonmetric characteristics of known worldwide human populations, using the Howells and Hanihara databases which mainly include recent human populations, including craniometric data for 380 populations (N=8,833). This analysis indicates that the Kennewick remains are not very similar to any modern ("late Holocene") human populations, although the shape is most similar to Northern Asian populations (e.g., the Ainu).
I am against bad science and science used purely for political motives and that is exactly what this case is.
Do I side against the tribes on every issue...NO. In fact I am on their side on a variety of issues. I do however believe that in this case the study of this skeleton is more important than the claim to it by tribes who have no clue if this person is one of their ancestors.
Also I will make a bit of a concession. I do not know if Kennewick man is Caucasian. I do however know that in science you look to the most likely explanation first. Dragging in a small obscure tribe of people merely because it would be more politically expedient to have them be the origin is not science. Now that the skeleton is going to be properly studied we will probably get the answer and I bet alot of people (maybe myself included) will have to change their perception of where this man came from. I'm betting its not the Auni.
Not once in all the articles on that site do they ever use any scientific data to compare the kennewick man to the Auni people.
Not once.
They do not compare cranial structures they do not compare dental stuctures they merely state that while they have little evidence they believe the Auni are the people he most resembles. Thats not a conclusion of fact its an opinion and not one based on any evidence given.
It should be interesting.
Political correctness has lost to science for a change. Most indian tribes moved around quite a bit and had nomadic lifelstyles. At any rate, in 9.300 years, its kind of hard to believe the same people were living in the same place all that time.
Thanks to pandering to American Indian "Rights" fanatics like the nitwits who tried to block this, a lot of the original data is unrecoverable as the site where the bones were found was demolished by the U.S. government to avoid angering this handfull of aboriginal fanatics.
Using their thinking, Etzli, or whateverm they call the iceman they found in the Alps, should be protected by the Italian, Swiss, and Austrian Governments because he might have been one of THEIR ancestors!!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.