German Scientists: Europe's Oldest Script Found In Bulgaria (Minoan)

Sofia News Agency ^ | 5-18-2005

[blam]

I wonder how this relates to the Tocharian writing found on the oldest paper ever found in the Tarim desert?

[blam]

GGG Ping.

[GOP_Party_Animal]

Return to Castle Wolfenstein!

[AnAmericanMother]

This is the Cretan writing, also known as Linear A script, which dates back to XV-XIV century B.C.

Linear B used the Minoan alphabet (actually a syllabary) to write Greek. Linear A uses the same characters for an unknown language which has resisted any effort to translate it. (If Michael Ventris couldn't do it, I dunno who could. He was a genius who died too young.) It's believed to be the language spoken by the Minoan inhabitants of Crete before the Dorian (Greek) invasion.

The extant documents are mostly inventory/tax lists, not a good sample to decipher an unknown language. Maybe these new documents will enable another attempt. But since they're tablets, they're probably just more tax rolls!

(That death and taxes thing again.)

[antiantiamericans]

"35-centuries old"

"XV-XIV century B.C."

For some reason, I can't stand that. Pick a darn format you want to use and go with it!

Arrrg.

[Strategerist]

There's something extremely depressing about the oldest writing known being for tax rolls.

[aposiopetic]

The extant documents are mostly inventory/tax lists, not a good sample to decipher an unknown language.

That is too bad.

Were no epic poets tax collectors?

[AnAmericanMother]

Yep, pretty depressing.

But of course if you're running a small kingdom like Crete with tributary princes, you better keep track of who has brought how much grain and oil and "ti-ro-pi-de" (tripods - the word that enabled Ventris to break the code).

Writing was invented to keep track of the taxes. (See Domesday Book for a more recent example.) Religious monuments and public proclamations came later.

[AnAmericanMother]

I bet Gilgamesh was written down by some bored tax collector waiting for the afternoon delivery to show up . . . < g >

[GSlob]

"There's something extremely depressing about the oldest writing known being for tax rolls."
Actually the oldest writings would be not the tax rolls but the records of state conquests, like that Manes(sp?) stela on reunification of Egypt. But close on its heels came Gilgamesh epics with more earthly characters like Shamash and Enkidu who managed to copulate for 7 nights and 7 days without taking a break. The record is still standing.

[Strategerist]

I'd actually feel better if the earliest writing was soft-core porn than tax records :-)

[layman]

Shamash and Enkidu who .. copulated for 7 nights and 7 days without taking a break. The record is still standing.

Well ... yeah ... but technically that was the pre-viagran record.

[D-fendr]

Technically, tax rolls are records of screwing...

[layman]

Technically, tax rolls are records of screwing.

LOL. I think you're on to something.

[Grut]

Technically, tax rolls are records of screwing...

But not mutual screwing....

[AnAmericanMother]

IIRC, the oldest Sumerian tablets (around 3300 B.C. - older than the Egyptian hieroglyphs which began around 3100-3000) are in an unknown language, but they are lists, with quantities, of repetitive characters, which sounds an awful lot like an inventory, which means . . . taxes!

[GSlob]

IIRC, Manes' stela is ca. 3200 BC, but I might be wrong.

[AnAmericanMother]

I'm puzzled. Menes, also known as Aha, was the founder of the First Dynasty and united the Kingdoms circa 3100 B.C. But I can't find anything on line about a stela connected with him or his reign.

The Narmer palette dates to around 3200 B.C. and according to the Egyptian tourist board website is one of the oldest examples of hieroglyphs.

[monkey]

The Dorian invasion (if it was so) refers to the invasion of the Peloponnese by the Dorians, several centuries after the Mycenaeans would have invaded Crete.

Re: Linear A: unless the underlying language is discovered, it's not going to be deciphered, regardless of the number of scrolls available. There are lots of examples of Etruscan writing.

[GSlob]

Well, I might be messed up. I meant that well-known from illustrations panel with two beasts with super-long intertwined necks and large Pharaonic figure. I remember reading the description that it was a panel (or stela?) signifying the unification of Upper and Lower Egypt, that it was about 3200 BC and that the unification was done by Menes. But my memory could have let me down.