Photo's: Historic United States Disciplinary Barracks (Ft. Leavenworth KS)Before and After

Fellow Freeper StarCMC allowing me to use her site to host these photo's | May 8, 2005 | self / Chele / Former Military Chick

[Tax-chick]

the new prison is not far, it is not the stones throw it was with the original prison

Dad and I stopped there at the Commissary in the summer of 1999. The prison had been closed and was being cleared out, I believe, but demolition had not begun. We spent about 45 minutes driving around and gazing, but didn't have any more time to spend.

[Former Military Chick]

As always I would like to thank StarCMC for hosting the following photo's. I think having exDBinmate shedding light on the institution. They are black and white, some are quite old, and hard to see but it gives you a flavor of the institution years ago.

Panoramic view of the United States Disciplinary Barracks.

Prison Farm

United States Disciplinary Barracks

United States Disciplinary Barracks, view from the west.

United States Military Prison. 1911

USDB - United States Disciplinary Barracks

[Tax-chick]

Those are great photos. Amazing building!

[SmithL]

United States Disciplinary Barracks

I love the way that they name things in the military. Great photos!

[Former Military Chick]

I recall that those working at the commissary made the same as the young kids now make, 25 cents a bag, or more if you are inclined to be generous. Kid of liking working at a restaurant. But, I wonder, the rate of pay is different for those in the prison system is it not?

I learned the story of a man who was there first hand when he much younger, I mean much younger and was in the military. I am fairly confident he was truthful, but, will do a leg work to see what I can uncover.

One day, having just broken my ankle for the 3rd time, I was waiting and they brought an inmate to the x-ray clinic, I guess, the prison has had difficulty with theirs. He was shackled and in a different color uniform. From what they said, each uniform color signifies the type of inmate he was. Were you identified in that way as well?

Yikes, that is some type of punishment. I had only heard of the gurney's as a result of the event aforementioned. That it was used to transport not to be a punishment method. I would hope that method was reserved for the worst of the worst, but the times they have changed.

I am sorry, I did not mean I had interviewed an old timer, I had thought perhaps I COULD interview an old timer. I had not pursued that, so thank you for the heads up on that issue. I do recall, jeff McDonald, the guy from Bragg, who was convicted of murder. Early on he was interviewed, to what end I do not know. His crime was horrific, that is if he committed the crime, I have some questions about the forensics. Evidently he had remarried and was able to transfer to a prison closer to his new bride. I find that odd, but, would not argue against that unless I learn otherwise.

I am flattered and appreciative of your reflections regarding my photo's. I had taken a journey and it is not finished. I think I will see if I can access the grounds tomorrow, to enter one of the remaining watch towers. You had asked about them and several are still standing.

Oddly enough, there are some buildings where they have posted the names of those who worked there, at the medical clinic, and they still remain.

I really will kick myself for not asking prior to the raising of the building if I could enter it, I probably would be denied but who knows. One would have to think a former guard might have at some point taken photo's but I do not know and it is a task to find such people.

You have offered a keen eye into historic building, your courage to talk openly of your experience I hope rev's up folks desire to delve into history, no matter the subject.

FMC

[bdfromlv]

There are many retired military 95C Correctional specialists living in the leavenworth area. My father worked at the DB from 1958-1965 when he retired. He was an escort for the last military prisoner executed by the military in the early 60's. they hung him I think at KSP. His career started at the military detention facilities in Japan in 1945. The military has its seperate facilities due to the fact that the individuals convicted under the UCMJ articles are sentenced to military punishment. They also have nothing in common with regular criminals and for the most part are first time offenders not the normal revolving door criminals that are in the civilian prisons. I was an old guy when I enlisted (23) and as an MP 95B law enforcement found that most prisoner abuse occured because of the youth and immaturity of the troops on the crews. Most want and crave excitment and as with all youths get out of hand without strong guidance.

[Happy2BMe]

#122 - the last photo.

At the flagpole . . what icon is at the base of the flagpole?

[daybreakcoming]

We never know what we will learn on FR. Thanks for the work done on this.
Are they going to leave one historic building intact?
And thanks for the ping

[Former Military Chick]

oops this is the one called the farm

[Former Military Chick]

I am thinking it is what exDBinmated described in his original post of my photo's but will see what I can find out.

thanks for the question/comment

[Former Military Chick]

I am glad you enjoyed the photo's it has been a lot of fun to do and I am thankful for all those who have added to this thread, it is quite the motivator to continue.

I am unaware of any other buildings being raised but as I said I am going to take a jaunt over there tomorrow and will ask the contractor.

[Gucho]

Bump - Great classic photos.

[exDBinmate]

FMC,
I understood you correctly and was just trying to point out that I doubt you would be able to interview a current DB inmate. As for the former green beret Jeffrey McDonald, he was never confined at the DB. The interview you speak of was conducted at USP Leavenworth.

As for uniforms worn, when I was there we all wore brown shirts and pants. You were not allowed to tuck your shirt in. We looked like UPS employees. We were issued field jackets and they too were dyed brown. We were told the color of uniforms was brown because we were pieces of shit. The inmates at the LPU (local Parolee Unit) were trustees and lived outside the walls. They wore light blue uniforms and tucked the shirt tails in.

Every inmate had a badge or inmate id card that was required to be worn on your left breast pocket. It had your name, reg number, domicile, and custody classification (by badge color, ie. red=max, green=min)

There weren't many paying jobs. I think the commissary and car wash. I'm not sure of the pay. All other jobs were non-paying. I initially worked in the shoe shop for a couple of years. I have a vocational training diploma and am a certified cobbler, LOL! I never saw so many cowboy boots in all my life!

If you go tomorrow, see if you can go inside Bldg. B-5
The one you labeled Medical and Health. The 3 floors above ground were used as a min custody domicile and was a labyrinth of rooms. Prisoners lived in open rooms ranging from single, double, 10 men and up to 25 men in bunk beds and squad bay type setting. You don't realize what a luxury it is to live in your own cell until you have to live with other people again in the minimum building.

[investigateworld]

Somewhere else I've read the German POWs received military trials with International Observers and defense counsels etc. It's also significant that they weren't hung till after V-E Day, as Hitler threatened 100 to one reprisal's on US-Brit-Allies.

[Former Military Chick]

Sometimes, things can get confused in translation. Thank you for the heads up. I have to tell you the new prison is quite striking. They have huge security. Understandable. It looks like a huge college campus. You can go deer hunting and um shoot a shot right over the fence into the prison perimeter.

From my observations, going the USDB (original) was considered hard time. The environment was difficult. As you mentioned the living conditions. The idea that you did not have A/C must have been miserable. I am sure the mess was inside the Castle. I bet the buildings around the Castle that an inmate was aloud to go to would be coveted hugely.

Were the inmates escorted to the medical building? I am trying to figure out the layout as I said there was a sports field behind the building but looking at photo's you also had one directly next to the Castle.

Currently, the inmates wear 3 different color's signifying their status at the prison. I will have to pursue that in the next week of what color meant what but I suppose it was method to make the system run more smoothly.

How many inmates were there to a cell? Were the tiers divided for a purpose or were they all equal. I cannot imagine the lack of privacy, not even my time in the military would come close, let alone my college experience.

You mentioned trustees, I must confess I watched a bit more TV than I care to admit. It seems like anyone can be a trustee, if their trust worthy? I wonder, as I took photo's of other places on Post, what were the images that you could see from your windows? Did you have windows? From one direction are miles and miles of land and from another the river.

Thank you, I appreciate any and all corrections. I have done some reading on McDonald, now I wonder, why was he not sent to a military prison? It seems that he did the crime while on A/D? Just one of those questions that gnaws at me. I also feel he has ligit issues of his forensics. As a matter of fact, or little known fact, the home he lived in, was left the way it was for decades. It was a training tool for the military and their military police. Frankly who would have wanted to live there, so it was a good choice I am sure.

As I think about it, the color of the uniforms are the color of the badges you wore, things change and they remain the same.

I will to my best to get access to that building and will report back. BTW, as with the federal prison's, the warden lives on the grounds, with trustee's. Oddly enough next to the Big House, are these charming little bungalows that I bet are the quarters for the folks that work at the Federal Pen.

Really has nothing to do with this, but, an interesting observations. Also that the design of both are so similar.

[exDBinmate]

can someone post this pic? It shows how the flagpole walkway was not round and the "sickle" shape can be seen better here. http://www.militaryinjustice.org/Images/db-aerial.jpg

Also, this one shows the inside of a wing in the castle. One of the only pics I've ever seen of the inside of the castle. http://www.militaryinjustice.org/Images/db-wing.jpg

[Happy2BMe]

That sickle theory is interesting . .

==================

[bad company]

Were there any signals that he might do something like this??

Nothing I ever saw. I was one of the guys that spent too much time drunk and getting into fights. He never ran around with me, I spent a lot of time in trouble in those days. He was what I would have considered respectable. He would occasionally drink a beer or two, but was always responsible about it. That's why I remember him so well that night. It was very out of charachter for him to be that drunk.

Nothing in what I knew then but even more haunting is that even what I know about criminals now makes sense when it comes to this incident. He was never sullen or moody. No excessive foul language He was outgoing and personable

You know, now that I think about it there was one incident. A 1lt went to wake him up for duty in the middle of the night, and scared him and he popped the lt in the nose. Rob felt really bad about it and no one, even the lt ever thought anything about it.

I've heard that prople that were molested as kids will do that. That's pure speculation on my part, but this will never make sense for me.

None of us believed that he was guilty at first. But then he took a quick plea bargain and was gone.

[Former Military Chick]

Bravo, thank you friend for adding these to the thread, it certainly add's to the discussion.

I can see the flag pole and what you were describing.


It seems that prison's of that time, pretty much look the same. With the bars on the door's as compared to now, steel doors. That is really a rare photo, thank you again.

[exDBinmate]

Your observations are correct. The DB was no place to be and you knew that you were at the end of the line when you got there. The photos don't do the castle justice. It was huge, ominous, physically imposing on the outside and even more so on the inside.

Once inside you were in the rotunda with a small building square in the middle known as master control. The was no painting at the top of the rotunda like the Sistine chapel. Off of the rotunda were the "wings" which were the cell blocks. The cell blocks were stacked 6 tiers high and fenced off at the front,back and sides from 4 tier up. There were 2 floors underground the castle as well. That is where the "hole" among other things was located. The lowest tier was known as 1 tier, then above it 2 tier. You could not get from 1 and 2 tier into the main wing off the rotunda. The main or first floor in the wing was actually 3 tier. There was a guard cage inside the wing upon entering that the guards were locked inside of and they controlled all the cells from this cage. The next tier up was then 4,5,6,7, and finally 8 tier. The wing was made in a rectangle and there were identical cells on each side except one side on 3 tier had showers instead of cells for half of the length of the cell block. Stairs in the front on both sides led up to the higher tiers.

We lived in single man cells. Once you were awarded custody you were allowed to live with other people. 6 wing was known as "minimum inside-only" which meant that they lived in 2 man cells inside the walls but couldn't work outside the walls. Minimum buildings and LPU (outside the walls) lived in rooms or squad bays.

If you were to progress thru the custody ranks from highest to lowest, you would first be maximum custody, locked in your cell 23 hours day. Then medium custody, eligible to work and move about the wing but locked down at night and during all counts. Then MIO, lived in unlocked cells inside the castle. Then Minimum custody, live inside the walls but outside the castle and can work outside the walls, then trustee unit which is outside the walls.

Not everyone progressed through every single custody grade. When my sentence was reduced, I went from medium custody to minimum custody and then home. Some guys with only 5 year sentence would be awarded minimum custody as soon as they arrived. It depended on each inmate, crime, sentence, etc.

From 7 wing, I could see a small airfield and the banks of the river. There were no windows in the cells but windows in the wing you could see outside of from your cell. During the flood of 93-94? I was in minimum custody and worked on outside work crew filling sandbags! That was a serious flood. We filled millions of sandbags trying to stop the river.

In regard to Jeffrey McDonald, I think that for whatever reason, he was tried by a federal court and not by court-martial. That is why he has always been a federal prisoner. I think that covered your questions, sorry if I missed any