Posted on 04/04/2005 8:00:34 AM PDT by SmithL
but you are a Catholic? correct?
(I think that's right: I had four years of Latin but that was decades ago.)
No. Some are Catholic and some are Orthodox. I already said that and this is getting really, really intensely tedious. If you want to use catholic in the generic sense, then start typing catholic and not Catholic. Better yet, I'm going to drop this altogether so type whatever you want.
Let me know what your Eastern Orthodox relatives say when you a accuse them of not being Catholic! LMAO
I agree with that idea (if a last chance solution to prevent local interference by the bishop). But that sounds too much like the "national" parishes of day's gone by, where certain ethnic groups went to certain parishes (ie. in my mom's neighborhood, Poles and Lithuanians went to the Annuciation, Italians and Irish usually went to Our Lady of Mt. Carmel.
As for cultural vs. religious problems then yes, because there wasn't as much of an open door to discuss things in the Church prior to Vatican II. Although i would argue that VCII also caused many to lose their compass. They didn't even come out until 8-10 years ago.. Prior to that, even if it were serious, bringing forth allegations against your priest were just simpy unthinkable for most.
How about Garry Kasparov as Russian President? He quit professional chess to challenge Putin. Is Lech Walesa term limited in Poland?
Give it another yeear or two at most, Merkel will probably be die Chancellorin. BTW, is she Christian Democratic Union or Christian Social Union (they're technically two different parties that caucus together), CDU is the Protestant wing for the northern and southwestern part of the country, CSU is the Catholic wing that operates primarily out of Bavaria, an offshoot of the Catholic Center Party in the Weimar period.
i meant to also add, it's a little early, since he just got elected, but once Yuschenko leaves office how about Yulia Tymoshenko as President of Ukraine?
What about most Catholics?
Merkel is CDU. Stoiber is still leader of the CSU I believe.
You have to remember that all of these cardinals are men of Vatican II. They celebrate the Novus Ordo in their dioceses, and see even the allowance for the Tridentine Mass as a kind of promotion of it, which they will never do.
I think many more bishops would be open to Tridentine Masses if those who wanted them were more diplomatic in asking for them. Often, they march into the bishops' office, in a confrontational manner, and wave Ecclesia Dei in the bishop's face.
The traditionalists we have here on FR are, by and large, such people: angry, demanding and uncompromising.
I'd like to see the traditionalists accommodated, but this kind of stuff does not help.
God is the same today as he was yesterday, and the same as he will be tomorrow. Isn't this God's church?
The MSM has conducted another useless poll, so what.
Salvation is not by majority rule.
I read that it arose out of a conflict concerning Catholic owned land and medieval land inheritance laws. An unmarried man wouldn't have any sons (well at least legal sons) to challenge the church.
Not so, many evangelicals consider JP II the evangelical pope and many considered him a major force for Christianity in general.
Not just the geographical/linguistic differences loosening the bonds, but also a temporal shift. Post Vatican II i have seen about 2-3 changes, albeit minor, in the Liturgy, and a LOT of changes in the music. It went from the reverent Mass In Honor of Pope Paul VI to the Guitarzan mass (barf alert on the latter). The Tridentine mass was intended to be the same not only no matter where you go, but no matter WHEN you are. It was offically promulgated in the 1500s, but had been in practice since the early Church. In almost 1700 years there were NO siginificant changes where one would see a substantial difference in the Mass. Come along 1962 and John XXIII et voila, lots of liturgical experimentation, etc etc etc.
Take a man from 1962 forward only a few decades later and he'd wonder if he had stepped into a Methodist service.
That's how much things have changed.
A nice start on liturgical renewal would be outlawing OCP and Gather hymnals from all U.S. Catholic churches immediately.
But having talked to a conservative papabile just a few weeks ago (I won't say who), I don't think that's in the cards.
I'll admit that GATHER is loaded with Protestant hymns, but that's because the Protestants wrote good hymns.
If we did as you suggest, all we'd be left with is tripe like "Daily, Daily sing to Mary."
No thanks.
That happens sometimes, and that is unfortunate. Even the worst bishop deserves some measure of respect, and a bishop you're starting up a communication with deserves the benefit of the doubt.
But I do know of respectful and terribly deferential requests which have gotten ignored entirely or treated disdainfully.
Most bishops simply don't like the old mass and think allowing it very much or at all would be counterproductive. And are naturally suspicious of those who do like it. (and let us admit that a few folks do nothing to lay these suspicions to rest.)
Which is a shame, because the N.O. liturgy is in pretty dismal shape in many parishes - and directly tied, I think, to decline in belief in the Real Presence.
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