Posted on 03/21/2005 7:50:03 AM PST by Pendragon_6
I understand that when he called up her parents, he told them she was dead.
The law of Florida counts this as life support. And yes, we couldn't implant tubes before the last half of the last century.
There was no reason to remove the tube other than in anticipation of Felos' argument that it would be cruel to reinsert it.
In the meantime, Schiavo - not Terri's doctor - has forbidden sips of water, ice chips or anything by mouth.
The intention is to cause death, not to allow death. If the wish were to "let her go" Michael would allow oral hydration.
As her body starves, it will break down fat, resulting in ketosis, acidic blood. She will hyperventilate as long as she has the strength, in order to blow off carbon dioxide to get rid of the acid. She will make increased urine until her kidneys fail in another attempt to get rid of the acid in the form of ketones.
The dehydration will be uncomfortable and exhausting. Unless she is sedated somehow. The sedation will prevent the hyperventilation, speeding death due to acidosis.
Ohhhhh, you poor widdle baby...
I condemn him for attempting to murder his wife, this go around he will probably succeed.
That's for proving my point about how absurd it is.
Sorry, I disagree. I've repeated why many times in this thread yesterday.
To murder is a dynamic action; letting nature "take its course" is a passive action.
By your reasoning, when I signed a DO NOT RESUSCITATE order and when we discontinued feeding my dying wife, I am also guilty of attempted murder.
Tell me, how far must one go to *artificially* prolong life in cases of no hope for recovery? Make no mistake, a feeding tube implanted into a patient's stomach is ARTIFICIAL.
One year? Two? Five? 15????
If life extension is the primary ethical standard; why then don't we just hook up everyone in rest homes and emergency rooms to heart/lung machines and let everyone life forever by machines even though they are brain dead?
Yes, you're right, and the jury and most of the nation is wrong.
Do us all a favor, and stay away from jury duty.
I think that anyone who has access to cement mix, dyed their hair, sold a car, etc... would like to have me on the jury.
If they killed their spouse, I'm sure they would.
...and unborn child!
Inspite of myself, I stay glued to this.
First, I realize I do not have the "facts", I'm not sure anyone does.
However, Terri's lawyer could sue on her behalf for a "divorce" based upon infidelity of the spouse. I think that might help, provided she is allowed to live.
Then, being divorced, her care would revert to her parents. She belongs with them.
But I hope, in a way, that she will be allowed to just pass, since the prospect of a recovery seems unlikely, and in fairness to her parents, who shouldn't bear this weight alone.
I fundamentally do not think we have the "right" to "insist" that someone remain alive. There IS a difference between killing someone, and "allowing them to die".
Nor do I beleieve we have the right to kill, except in self-defense.
But you know what? This is really none of my own business if life were being lived properly. What we have here is a search for a consensus, under "democracy" - which is a "tyranny of the majority".
I'd much rather just be "free", and handle my own affairs.
So I will be going back to obeying authority now, and wait for the next election day, when I am permitted the allussion for a day that I really choose my own masters.
In truth, my masters are chosen for me, I obey them. (Seat belts, insurance coverages, health care taxe, gas tax, tolls, mandatory this, mandatory that, taxes that take half my earnings, license this, poermit that, and so on.)
So, let the law handle it. It isn't my deal is it? It doesn't really concern me. Ultimately whatever I do or do not do is undone by the "majority", as interepreted by "authority".
What a game.
"By your reasoning, when I signed a DO NOT RESUSCITATE order and when we discontinued feeding my dying wife, I am also guilty of attempted murder."
Did you cause your wife to be in the condition she was in? I doubt it. Did your wife have broken bones elsewhere and injuries, consistant with stranglation, to her neck? I doubt it. Had your wife made rehabilitative progress, only to have you move her from nursing home to nursing home? I doubt it. Did you insist your wife have a feeding tube installed even thought she could eat and drink to some degree? I doubt it. Was your wife unfortunately passing away from an incurable disease? I assume yes. I'm sorry for your loss, but I'm guessing that there is no similarity between Terri Schivo and your wifes unfortunate demise. Mr. Schivo did everything he could to deny his wife treatment. Terri Schivo is not brain dead, she is brain damaged. Should we kill all mentally retarded indiviuals? Hitler did so.
Thank You. We should talk more often.
Thank You. We should talk more often.
I was once like you, believed the worst about Michael Schiavo because of the flood or articles written against him. After learnign the truth, I became angry when I realized I was duped by Terri's family. All the videotape snippets, all the claims of cognition, all the demonizations of Michael. All lies. I hate being manipulated.
If it is true he beat her, why hasn't he ever been charged much less convicted? Why has he won ALL 11 court cases? Why is it every single one of the independent court observers concluded she's in a PVS? Why is it she has NEVER been able to swallow, not even during the first couple of years?
Who TOLD you Terri's injuries were consistent with being strangled? Where did this claim come from? Dr Baden. Didn't you know he changed his assessment after obtaining additional information? Don't you know this? If Dr. Baden himself admitted his initial conclusion was wrong; why don't you accept it? Or, perhaps, you simply didn't know he admitted his error and are just repeating it?
Here's an e-mail I received. The sender gave me permission to repeat it:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sending this to a few of you on thread and others I know who are trying to cull thru the hype...
Just more lies they tell.
Terri's tube was put in before she even left the first hospital -
http://www.terrisfight.org/documents/Humana%20Discharge%20Summary%20050990.pdf
she could not swallow then, nor could she pass the yearly swallow tests done on her in those first three critical years when she was having rigorous therapy.
(and she was - even her sister said it 2 nights ago on hannity. also see Wolfson's report, and the good timeline here: http://www.miami.edu/ethics2/schiavo/timeline.htm
(the timeline they post is misleading and, in some parts, wrong. Interestingly, the other guardian ad litem reports - very positive reviews of Michael - have been removed, and only the pearse one remains. They are pulling official docs left and right and replacing them with "summaries".)
Carla Iyer's affidavit reads like a pure lunatic. I agree with greer: http://www.terrisfight.org/documents/Order%20Denying%20Pet%20Immed%20Ther%20091703.pdf
And the forensic pathologist, Baden, only said that about her being attacked a long time ago when all he knew was what Greta's producer gave him - the short summary of the bone scan they post.
Twice in the last month, most recently a few nights ago, he clarified that he's seen her other records, and now attributes her collapse to cardiac arrest induced by severely low potassium, and said that it made sense considering her weight loss and apparent eating disorder. (just like the jury found in the malpractice trial.) Note also that eating disorders can cause 30% loss of bone mass in a year.
Terri supporters posted in the daily thread their dismay that Baden "joined the conspiracy to kill Terri", but they ignore it and still use his old statement.
They have zero respect for truth.
(By the way, the actual "broken bones" weren't suspicious to her physicians at the time. The radiologist who wrote the report never laid an eye on her, or knew anything about her history or why he was asked for the scan (stiff joints in therapy)
She had "possibly" fractured ribs and the extensions of the thoracic vertebra connected to them, commonly broken during CPR, a *bruised* femur, hairline compression fracture of her LI disk (radiologist said her fall - and the joint problems her doctors attributed to people in her condition having therapy. They treated with hot compresses.
(she had a neck x-ray at the beginning, and they found no damage.)
Greer's decision: http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/trialctorder11-02-scan.pdf
(shows the other doctors gave opposing affidavits, and shows another lie they tell - Michael never hid the scan from them.)
Full deposition of radiologist:
http://www.hospicepatients.org/dr-walker-t-schiavo-bone-scan-deposition.txt
There's more at the local newspaper sites.
Sorry for writing a novel, but it's the best I can contribute now. I'd help out more in the forum, but typing's really hard, and I'm battle weary. The more I learned about the whole story, the more aggravating the misinfo. But it's so draining fighting off the flames...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
All is not what it appears at first glance. Perhaps you too will get angry when you realize how foolish we are were at being made to believe such nonsense.
He admits he didn't know what Terri wanted
http://www.theempirejournal.com/03200544_michael_admits_he_didn.htm
"If it is true he beat her, why hasn't he ever been charged much less convicted?" Good question, I read that there was initial interest but it was dropped, I believe after the accusation of Anorexia.
"Why has he won ALL 11 court cases?" Almost all of these "cases" were appeals based on rule of law, no review of the medical facts was involved.
"Why is it every single one of the independent court observers concluded she's in a PVS?" Incorrect - 2 of the five appointed doctors disagreeded with the conclusion, the judge discredited their opinions.
"Why is it she has NEVER been able to swallow, not even during the first couple of years? " She was swollowing saliva until they dehydrated her to the point that she could not produce it. Probably happened over the weekend this go around. She used to take jello and other soft foods until Schivo banned that type of feeding.
"Who TOLD you Terri's injuries were consistent with being strangled? " These were the initial findings. Terri has never been able to or allowed to progress to the point that she could comment. I realize even if she regained such communication ability she would not likely remember anything, even who she is.
"Terri's tube was put in before she even left the first hospital" I believe she has had numerous tubes. Her reported ability to eat soft foods was most certainly not sufficent to sustain her. Further therapy could potentially remedy this, maybe not. Feeding tubes are not an unusual treatment. It is difficult, and undesireable due to other physiological reason, to sustain someone via IV feeding.
It appears that she is NOT PVS, why the push to kill her?
So apparently you will believe ANYTHING which upholds your views. This story is totally bogus just like the lies that there is some hoard of money MS would get when the death is recognized officially or that he tried to kill TS in the first place. All completely ludicrous and without a shred of truth to support ANY of them.
And you will ignore ANYTHING which disagrees with your views. What is there in your soul that countenances treating a poor woman in a way which would be prosecuted if done to a dog?
And you will ignore ANYTHING which disagrees with your views. What is there in your soul that countenances treating a poor woman in a way which would be prosecuted if done to a dog?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.