Posted on 02/23/2005 7:03:38 AM PST by gunnyg
"The raising of that flag on Suribachi means a MARINE CORPS for the next 500 years."
James Forrestal, Secretary Of The Navy
Well, we're left with a salient definition of male only combat MOS' as well as separate recruit training...for starters... ~grin~
BTW:...WMs rock!
-Semper Fi Bump-
First To Fight. And usually, the last to leave.
Semper Fi.
L
What!!!!!
ONLY 500 years?
Tsk, Tsk, tsk...
Chesty did better than that!
Ref
http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=220604&messageid=1033318016
http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=220604&messageid=1033318016
My uncle Sam Zigtema was injured on Iwo Jima. I have his 5th Division Marine Corp Book and in it is a catalog for wheel chairs. I can't imagine selecting your wheel chair at age 20. He stayed active in that wheel chair, playing basketball, fishing, hunting and working until he died from complications finally in 1967. His local VFW honored him by burying him next to the soldiers that actually died in WWII.
He had a gun shop in his basement and as a kid I remember big blocks of wood that he shot into. Some went through and really tore the heck out of the block walls. My Aunt didn't like it but of course let him get away with it. She was a saint, his nurse in the hospital and then married him.
My uncle Sam Zigtema was injured on Iwo Jima. I have his 5th Division Marine Corp Book and in it is a catalog for wheel chairs. I can't imagine selecting your wheel chair at age 20. He stayed active in that wheel chair, playing basketball, fishing, hunting and working until he died from complications finally in 1967. His local VFW honored him by burying him next to the soldiers that actually died in WWII.
He had a gun shop in his basement and as a kid I remember big blocks of wood that he shot into. Some went through and really tore the heck out of the block walls. My Aunt didn't like it but of course let him get away with it. She was a saint, his nurse in the hospital and then married him.
Good article, but it leaves out a few things:
1. In both the Iraq and Afghanistan theaters, the USMC has relied extensively on the US Army and US Air Force logistics pipeline. When you talk about "packing your trash", remember who's providing it. The Army has, since WWII, been postured for the long fight (while maybe not the quickest draw) and the logistics channels are geared towards that. After nearly two years in Iraq and even longer in Afghanistan, the use of the term "expeditionary" needs to be tightened up, a bit.
2. "Expeditionary", apparently, means relying on other services heavier elements for support. Namely, the reliance on 3rd ID artillery (M109A5 SP, not towed like USMC M198 guns) in the primary preparatory fires for the USMC assault into Iraq and the use of Bradley CFVs to initiate the Fallujah assault. While both weapons systems aren't necessarily geared towards the "expeditionary" role, it amazing how often they were called upon.
Watched Parris Island training on tv other day. Awful lot of little girls are now Marines. A whole lot.
BTW, it was this same Forrestal who not long afterward had the following warning for the Corps...
"THROUGH THE YEARS...
"Beginning with the presidency of Andrew Jackson, the Marines had survived eleven serious proposals to disband the Corps or merge it with the Army.5"
"...Secretary of the Navy James Forrestal, who was inspecting Green Beach on Iwo Jima that morning in 1945, saw the Stars and Stripes go up atop Mount Suribachi and heard the beleaguered troops below come alive with whistles and cheers and shouts of joy. He turned to Marine General Holland M. Smith and said, 'The raising of that flag on Suribachi means a Marine Corps for the next five hundred years!'1"
Forrestal had been speaking of the first flag raising on Suribachi at about 1020 on the morning of 23 February 1945, not the raising of the second, or 'replacement' flag made famous by the Rosenthal photograph.
"In 1948 Secretary Forrestal--the same Forrestal who had predicted a long future for the Marines on the beachhead below Suribachi--warned the Corps not to begin thinking of itself as a second Army.14"
-Marling/Wetenhall
Ref
http://www.angelfire.com/ca/dickg/notes.html
Oooorahhhh...Semper Fi!
You are correct--nobody wishes to deny the other services the privilige of the service duties for Marines--go ahead and wait the tables, carry the bags, etc.
Fitting!
Then, I guess you're completely unfamiliar with the M109 SP Howitzer or the M3 Bradley CFV? Facts is facts.
BTW, that airfield that was "seized"? That was already occupied by US Army soldiers. I guess we'll have to revisit the term "seized", too?
Please don't play yourself.
If it is there, we'll aquire and exploit it...we're Marines.
We rely heavily on US Navy logistics as well...problem there? That is how the US Military is designed to operate...with the Marine Corps being the Hammer [Case in point: Fallujah].
Get over the schizophrenic, grasshopper mentality that displays itself with "Oh Yeah" statements and loaded questions.
No matter what tac you take. What avenue of approach you use...at the end of the day, we're still the ones titled: "Marines" ...and it's for a reason.
...again, don't play yourself.
It was being held by Special Forces Green Berets. Who themselves are a hell of allot closer to Marines than to US Army [line unit] Soldiers.
Sounds a bit like sour grapes and Eagle Globe and Anchor envy to me ;)
Again, you ignore the facts.
Nothing was meant to disparage ANYTHING about the USMC, especially on today of all days. But, the facts must presented as they are. I was replying to the article and some of the issues that it glossed over concerning "expeditionary" warfare and some of its drawbacks.
And, US Army Special Forces are part of the Army. They are soldiers. They're not Marines and you know that. Next, you'll want to claim the Airborne and Navy SEALs. Now, who's playing themself?
Not at all.
The article specifically mentioned the US Army's difficulties in adopting the "expeditionary" approach to warfare. I was addressing the shortcomings that the article's author failed to mention. Two years later and it's no longer "expeditionary."
That's largely due to having out own integrated Air Wings, and how closely the ground guys train with the aviators. The army is somewhat handicapped by having to rely on a separate service, the Air Force, for much of its support.
That's not just an old jarhead saying that. A family member who is a major in the Air Force, and who has worked extensively with those issues in Iraq, is eligible for his Command level school. He's elected to go to the Marine Corps' Command and Staff College in Quantico precisely because he's been so impressed by how the effectively the Corps coordinates its fire support. btw, some Marine arty battalions are armed with the M109-series rather than the 198's.
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