Wanted Yukos Shareholders Meet Bush in White House

MosNews ^ | 04.02.2005

[jb6]

Democracy by joining the EU? When did I step into the Twilight Zone?

[GarySpFc]

You still don’t catch that OUR vision (democracy, stability) won there?

Won? So it was the Polish vision of democracy for the Ukraine you wanted and not their vision?

[Lukasz]

Imagine that we both have the same vision, this vision means democracy and is characteristic for all civilized societies. I don’t see any reason to call this Polish vision and for sure isn’t imposed vision like you trying to suggest. It is amazing that how people like you ignoring will of the Ukrainian nation, fortunately your opinion isn’t important for them.

[PhilDragoo]

Imagine that we both have the same vision, this vision means democracy and is characteristic for all civilized societies.

Elections in Afghanistan, Ukraine, Iraq.

Seeing a trend here, even if there are some in denial.

[monday]

Russia's economy is a joke. It's GDP is minuscule compared to it's size. It's riddled with corruption both inside and outside government. It's a pity. I like Russia, but it is being exploited by it's leaders.

[jb6]

If you look strictly at GDP then yes, but then again, all that means is you're taking rubles and transferring them into dollars and since the dollar fell 15% vs the ruble in the past year, does that mean all Russians are 15% richer? That's the joke way of economics. The reality is Purchasing Power Parity. That's when you compare a basket of basic goods and figure out equivalently what the local salary is worth.

In America, a dollar will buy you a candy bar and that's about it and not even the king sized one at that. In Russia a dollar, 27.8 rubles (two years ago it was 33 rubles) will still buy you a loaf of bread (and good bread at that not the wet chemical dow that we get) and 1.5 kg of potatoes. Thus the average family is earning 280 dollars per month and lives normally off of that.

Further, by CIA World Book calculations, Russia's PPP value stands at 1.28 trillion, making it the 6th largest economy and those are 2003 estimates. With a 6.9% growth rate this year, that sets it at: $1.368.

Economics is more then just looking at dollar value of someone, dollar is a relative issue, especially as a fiat and in effect unbacked piece of paper.

[monday]

"Thus the average family is earning 280 dollars per month and lives normally off of that."

lol.... sure, as long as normally means lots of potatoes and cabbage, and a cramped soviet era apartment where three generations live in two rooms.

[jb6]

The apartments vary from place to place, but I can tell you this, you can take that cramped apartment in Moscow (everyone owns their apartments) and sell it to a Western corp for their employees for around $80-200K cash.

As for food, the diet there is more varied but the point is: no one starves and to buy a cottage (ducha) in the country side costs around $5K.

As for those apartments, many of those buildings are being torn down and larger, modern ones put up. The tenants of the old ones get a new modern apartment and the company gets a set of new open apartments to sell too.

[monday]

"everyone owns their apartments"

If everyone owns their own apartments, why are three generations living in the same one?

[jb6]

Because in major cities, like Moscow or Kiev, etc, there was always a shortage of apartments. That's one reason you had to register to live in Moscow and other major cities, to control migration into them and keep slums from appearing.

[Grzegorz 246]

"One would have thought the Poles would have learned their lesson after the backlash they recieved from Russia over the Ukraine, but I am beginning to believe they never learn."

What ?