POPE: SATAN WILL BE VANQUISHED BUT THE FIGHT IS LONG AND HARD (Pope invokes the Apocalypse!)

Here's a short rebuttal of preterism

Starting backwards. I haven't seen the last page after I posted my last comments. I've been doing more research. My kids want the internet so I'm trying to save stuff before I freeze up when I go off-line. I checked out your link, and would like to reply when I have more time. If you go back through my posts on this thread, you will see that I am NOT a full preterist. I believe Rev. 20:7-10 is a parenthetical time frame that we are living in now. A LOT can happen in that time frame, and it can happen in a multitude of ways. For instance, FIRE can mean more than one thing:

Jer 23:29 [Is] not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer [that] breaketh the rock in pieces?
http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Jer/Jer023.html#29
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Jer/23/29.html

The scriptures are given as an example. I am fully aware that there could be a double prophecy waiting in the wings. I am also fully aware of things that have been underway for a very long time to make it appear so. Unfortunately, I cannot always say everything that is on my mind. There are some who have an aversion to the truth that would set them free, so I often have to beat around the bush, hoping some will get the message. I gave a big hint in my last post, if indeed that post is still there. I never know until I check, and I don't often check back on my posts, because I usually have too much going on that pulls me forward. This thread was one of the exceptions.

I believe Satan was defeated at the cross. I believe his only power now is to DECEIVE for one last time, and I believe he is doing a very good job of it; I will give him credit for that.

Until later....I hope.

First, I believe that the Bible is the breathed word of God; I believe that God is who He says He is; I believe the only way to Him is through our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Now to my question...I'm new to the site, and have been reading all these posts, and would like to ask about the statement that Jesus founded, or started the Catholic church, but not the others...since you specifically name the Catholic church, can you point me to the supporting scripture? I am sincerely interested in this...thanks.

Just understand the Whore wears MANY faces, the better to deceive.
*****
One of the wisest posts I've seen here yet.....People have GOT to find the root of the deception. NO TREE looks like its ROOTS. The Lord said, "Take an ax to the ROOT." If you can see the root of it all you will see more than you want to see!!! Its like somebody turned on a light and you want to run around grabbing everyone out of it all!!
Sometimes it reminds me of watching someone stand in the middle of a road and I can see a semi coming, they are in la-la land so I run...push them OUT of the road and they get mad at me cause I pushed them down, when they could have been road kill.........sigh...thats just what it feels like sometimes.

And saying it AGAIN!! You have to find the ROOT of the Rapture teaching, to deceive yourself thinking that was the interpretation of those scriptures back to Christ's time is not a good thing. Gonna be a lot of freaked out people whose very foundation will be shaken when they see they are not leaving, But will have to STAND. Rapture doctrine was not a teaching until the early 1800's. Beware adding to and taking away from scripture.
"Take an AX to the ROOT." ROOT ...ROOT...ROOT..ROOT..ROOT!! Find the ROOT of that teaching...goes right back to the whore!! Time to GET OFF the milk bottles and spoon feedings and BE BEREAN!!

I've not forgotten you. I've been busy with the kids, first snow, watching incredible symbolism taking place the last few days :), being frustrated beyond belief by duct tape over my mouth :), reading, reading, reading, and understanding how everyone is so confused. Like what BrianBey said, you want to pull people out of the fire. God said we could even use FEAR to do that...whatever it took. My family is so mad at me right now, and some of them even think I am living in la-la land, and I don't know how to reach them. This is maybe a back-door attempt. You know how a prophet is not believed in his own home town? (I do NOT, NOT, NOT, want to compare myself to a prophet. I have only actively sought the mind of God, and still miss the mark, sometimes, but I don't stop trying. For the most part, I SEE what is going on, but can't say all I'd like to. Sometimes you have to pick apart God's word with a fine tooth comb - looking up each word in a verse, checking all cross-references, checking the history and interpretations by Bible commentators like Matthew Henry: see the trees through the forest. Other times you just have to stop and sit back and look at the forest, and ask yourself, what is God trying to say? How does it fit into His plan for the salvation of the world? Genesis 3:15 is one of the overriding themes of the Bible. The other is akin to it: Man MUST PUT HIS FAITH IN GOD. As a lack of faith in God [Adam and Eve in the Garden] made the world fall into sin, FAITH in Jesus Christ [Who IS God: Isaiah 9:6], will redeem the world. I hope that maybe I can reach someone else's loved ones, and maybe they will, in turn, reach mine.

Two Bible themes:

1) Gen 3:15 — And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Gen/3/15.html [HER seed is the same as the 'THY SEED' spelled out here: http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gal/Gal003.html#16 and here: http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gal/Gal003.html#29 . That is the Israel of God, grafted onto the Old Testment FAITHFUL.]

2) Psa 118:8 [It is] better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.
Psa 118:9 [It is] better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes.

Now I haven't had time to go through and answer all your questions yet, but I didn't want to leave you totally empty-handed. Here's one that kept coming back to my mind. I kept wanting to say "Here comes Johnny", but I didn't think that was quite right. So I looked this one up again: HAILSTONES ONE HUNDRED POUNDS IN WEIGHT THROWN UPON CITY

http://www.preteristarchive.bravepages.com/JewishWars/jo-5-06-3.html . Remember the Christians were undergoing tribulation at the time, being persecuted, and the book was written to give them hope and to explain what would soon take place. It was written in symbolic code so that they, and not their enemies, would understand. See http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/words.pl?word=in+tribulation&page=1 . See the links on the side of the preteristarchive.com'JewishWars page. There is a multitude of information in those. Check them out after you have seen the rest of the 'Jewish Wars' {hit the link with Josephus, the fellow in the turban). A lot of fulfilled prophecies are noted at the bottom of many of the entries. You might also want to see David Chilton's on-line book DAYS OF VENGEANCE [exposition of the Book of Revelation, chapter by chapter, line by line. It is FASCINATING. I think he was inspired. I have never had the opportunity to read all of it. I always seem to be 'building the wall' with one arm holding a 'weapon', and never seem to be able to find enough time to do all I want to. Check out pages 326-329, I think, the birth of Jesus: Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars... I notice that there is a link to DAYS OF VENGEANCE on the link above. If it doesn't work, just google DAYS OF VENGEANCE DAVID CHILTON.] If you don't find everything you want to know between DAYS OF VENGEANCE, The Wars of the Jews, and the links on the side [DISPENSATIONALIST DEMENTIA, THE HOPE OF ISRAEL, AND A PRETERIST LOOK AT 'ISRAEL AFTER THE FLESH' are very helpful, as are they all!], let me know, and I will see what I can do.

Hopefully, we are in the time of a new reformation: a final fulfillment of the New Covenant: http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Hbr/Hbr008.html#10

'...would like to ask about the statement that Jesus founded, or started the Catholic church, but not the others...since you specifically name the Catholic church, can you point me to the supporting scripture?..'

You and I both know they can't.

Mat 21:42 — Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Mat/21/42.html

Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, ***Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone];

1Cr 3:11 — *** For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/1Cr/3/11.html

The Roman Catholic church of course will site this:

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat016.html#18

However, the form of the word used for 'Peter' is not the same as the word used for 'rock'. Peter is Strong's Greek 'Petros' number 4074; 'rock' is Strong's number 4073:

thou [4771] su
art [1488] ei
*****Peter, ****[4074] ****Petros
and [2532] kai
upon [1909] epi
this [5026] taute
*****rock *****[4073] ****petra
I will build [3618] oikodomeo
my [3450] mou
church; [1577]

Lexicon Results for ****Petros (Strong's 4074)
Greek for 4074
Peter = "a rock or a stone"

1) one of the twelve disciples of Jesus

Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 162
AV - ****Peter 161, ****stone 1; 162 . Each time the word is used, it is used for Peter's name, except for this:

Jhn 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, **** A stone [4074].

Lexicon Results for *****petra (Strong's *****4073)
Greek for 4073

Pronunciation Guide
petra {pet'-ra}

Outline of Biblical Usage
1) a rock, cliff or ledge

a) a projecting rock, crag, rocky ground

b) a rock, a large stone

c) metaph. a man like a rock, by reason of his firmness and strength of soul

Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 16
AV - rock 16; 16
http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/words.pl?word=4073&page=1

I wonder if the Catholic church ever mentions that just five verses later, Jesus calls poor Peter, SATAN! http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Mat/Mat016.html#23 , hardly a name God would want to build His church on.

I pulled out my LUTHER video this morning, and wrote down the dialogue between Luther and his Professor Carlstadt:

Prof. Carlstadt [C] to class: "'Nulla salus extra ecclesiam.' This debate has raged for over 1,400 years, from the earliest days of the church, but now the Fifth Lateran Council has reaffirmed Saint Cyprian's famous dictum, 'Nulla salus extra ecclesium' - outside the Holy Roman church, there is no salvation."

Luther [L]: "Professor Carlstadt. What of the Greek Christians?"

C: "The Greek Christians?...Well, an early church document clearly states that a Roman bishop, not a Greek, was Saint Peter's successor. And, of course, it was Peter whom our Lord Christ made His representative on earth."

L: "So we must consider the saints of the Greek church to be damned?"

C: "You miss the point."

L: "But that is the inevitable consequences of Cyprian's claim - Greek Christians are outside salvation. Or is this claim based on an over-literal reading of Matthew 16:18 - 'Thou art Peter, and upon this rock, I will build my church'? Yet two lines earlier, in verse 16, we FIND THE VERY FOUNDATION OF OUR FAITH - 'YOU ARE THE CHRIST, THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD.' ***Surely the more universal we make these great words, the nearer we come to the mind of Christ."

C: "You question the authority of the church Council, sir?"

L: "Not at all. Though in 1215, the Fourth Lateran Council allowed that Cyprian could be wrong AND SALVATION COULD EXIST OUTSIDE THE CHURCH, THOUGH NOT OUTSIDE CHRIST."

C: [Speechless glare....] LUTHER, the movie. 2004.

Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. +++ http://www.blueletterbible.org/tsk_b/Jhn/14/6.html

Luk 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.

Luk 23:40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

Luk 23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Luk/Luk023.html#43

[no works, no indulgences, no pope, no church; just faith in Christ. May all see the Light.]

Ethan...thanks for your reply. I guess I'm still looking for something that warrants such unquestioned loyalty to a primarily tradition-based organization. I've yet to find it. All I can find are the references to those traditions that the Council of Trent (in 1545) declared would now be equal in authority with God's Word, the Bible...scary. Now that's a lot years after God's instruction in Rev.22 about adding and/or taking away from His words. And then, after that declaration, the RCC was free to add others such as (1)the immaculate conception; (2)Mary was sinless throughout her life; (3)that Mary was lifted into Heaven and didn't die; (4)Holy week, Ash Wednesday, All Saints Day, etc., etc., etc. When I see a conversation such as this on any message board, I do ask these questions and seek bible references, but to date have received not one shred of supporting scripture.

Jesus even said to the religious leaders of His day that they made null and void God's Word with their traditions. God looks on the heart and knows what is there...those leaders couldn't love Him with all their hearts, so they needed those traditions for the outward display that others would interpret as "spiritual" behavior. The Pharisees created a sort of checklist of what to do to be "religious"....then along came Jesus and confronted them with these words: (Matt. 23:27,28) "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness." If that's what Jesus thinks of tradition, I would be fearful of being involved in any part of it.

Thanks for your posts and scripture references...very helpful.

Would it be possible that he regrets having kissed the Koran in public?