Morton Kondracke: Immigration reform is a worthy issue for Bush (CITIZENSHIP for illegal aliens)

Naples Daily News ^ | 12/14/2004 | Morton Kondracke

[Once-Ler]

I think one of W's worries is our borders will be overwhelmed by the refugees.

Again you make a fascinating point. Internal struggles in Mexico may make today's problems look like picnic.

[Once-Ler]

That is sad, but not my fault. It is the fault of thin-skinned cowards who can't defend their own words.

Let me take this back FITZ. You have, in the time that I've conversed with you, strongly defended your point of view, and defended my right to speech. There is no need for me to whine at you. My appoligies and please disregard my last statement.

[investigateworld]

OK, Lets start at the basics: Everyone does what is in their own best interest. Me - you-the guy next and the lady down the street. Those who seek to open the borders obviously have a reason. I suspect in your case your not a landscape contractor or you would have been in bed a long time ago. So, I don't think your taking your position for economic terms. This is what separates you and me and a lot of other posters on this site. Therefore, I'm lead to believe that (and I'm just guessing here) that you see this issue from a /sp>insert fifty cent word here/<sp position.
This is admirable, for the Good Book tells us not to mistreat the stranger amongst us. But some of are just too human to abandon our sense of self preservation. I feel this nation has a special calling. In the long run, it's in the best interests of the whole world for us not to be over run by a flood of Third World illegal aliens. This is best illustrated by the simple fact that the majority of the Federal Budget is entitlements. Now who are the biggest users of entitlements?

[Once-Ler]

I feel this nation has a special calling. In the long run, it's in the best interests of the whole world for us not to be over run by a flood of Third World illegal aliens.

I believe America is a Shining City on the Hill. I think immigration has made America the envy of the world. I believe most of the illegals are here to work and they should have been allowed in years ago. If it wasn't for the fact that immigration is restricted to rediculous levels many of these people would have tried to enter legally. About 2 months ago all guest worker permits for 2005 were exhusted in less than 24 hours from the time they became available.

Now who are the biggest users of entitlements?

Citizens because of their vast superiority in numbers over Illegals...but I understand your question. What you mean to ask is "on average who uses more entitlements Citizens or Illegals?" To which I reply "citizens" again. Most illegals are afraid to use entitlements and since most of them have arrived in the last 10-15 years there are very few picking my pocket for Social Security and Medicare. I doubt many illegals are collecting Unemployment Insurance or Workmans Comp. Employers pay for those or their insurance pays for them and it is within the rights of an employer to investigate if they are getting ripped off. These claims can be contested and few illegals have the balls to walk into court without the assistence of a cop.

I've seen studies on cost of illegals that focus only on one or a few programs like school funding or food stamps but there is more socialism in America. There are bailouts to savings and loans and Chrystler. Grants for schools and artistic urine soaked crucifixes. PBS, libraries, and preserving historical site like the outhouse that General Custer once used in MO. Kicking out Mexican workers doesn't solve any of this, but solving or even reducing socialism in America will reduce the number of Mexicans entering the US to get a free meal.

[raybbr]

I have spent a great deal of time thinking about and offering what I consider intelligent solutions to the problem. You have merely contradicted me and given comfort to those how believe human suffering is inconsequential. I sleep very well thank you.

Laughable. I have gone back through your posts and see nothing but contradictory rhetoric to other's posts.

I can not look at the rules that guide humanity without looking at the humans.

Then why is it that I never see you advocate for illegals from Poland, Asia, Africa, etc?

If my opinions are nothing more than factless emotionalism then there should be no trouble ignoring my opinions for what you believe they are.

You really see yourself as some greet debater don't you?

Once again, I'll say it: You would ignore facts and use rhetoric and hyperbole to support an argument that the majority of people in the U.S. are against. You offer no solutions - just compare people who see the danger of illegals flooding our country through the southern border to Tancredo and Buchanan. It is your form of calling one a racist. But, since you are quite capable of ingoring facts it is easy for you.

[Once-Ler]

I have read your response.

[brianl703]

"When they develop 3 dimensional drivers-license-guides then your point will become valid."

You didn't understand my point. I don't think you want to understand.

Just as I described the security features of a Virginia driver's license to you, don't you think that would be described in the driver's license guide?

[Fatalis]

When do I stop calling Duke, Buchanan, and Tancredo racist? When they die.

Why do you lump Tancredo with the others? He's proposed a guest worker program that would be very generous to law abiding Mexican guest workers.

[Travis McGee]

His "debate syle" is to accuse folks who are winning the debate of being neo-Nazi "Stormfront" racists.

That's why he tries to associate Tancredo with former KKK leader David Duke.

It's transparent and pathetic.

[JustAnotherSavage]

Interesting thread!

[Travis McGee]

The Open Borders Lobby (OBL) is the same as Jesse Jackson or the gay lobby. When they run out of debating points, when they have been defeated in the argument on logic and reason, they can only fall back on screaming "NAZI! RACIST! BIGOT! HOMOPHOBE!"

We've seen it many times. Hence, calling me a neo-Nazi "Stormfront" racist, or lumping Tom Tancredo with David KKK Duke.

Same old same old, the tactic of the losers who cannot argue on the merits of their case. Their goal is to intimidate their opposition into silence by using the tar brush. It's old, worn out, and doesn't work any more.

It's just a little surprising to see it coming from open borders RINOs, and not only the gay lobby, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton etc.

[FBD]

bump to Travis McGee's post:

>"The Open Borders Lobby (OBL) is the same as Jesse Jackson or the gay lobby. When they run out of debating points, when they have been defeated in the argument on logic and reason, they can only fall back on screaming "NAZI! RACIST! BIGOT! HOMOPHOBE!"

We've seen it many times. Hence, calling me a neo-Nazi "Stormfront" racist, or lumping Tom Tancredo with David KKK Duke.

Same old same old, the tactic of the losers who cannot argue on the merits of their case. Their goal is to intimidate their opposition into silence by using the tar brush. It's old, worn out, and doesn't work any more."<

-Yup...We're on to their ruse.

[William Terrell]

The salient question is, if they can't defend their direction with logic, reason and predictions that have the ring of truth, they must know that. Then one must explore why they still want to go in that direction.

[FBD]

excellant point, WT.
I suspect the answer to that *exploration* would find a head firmly inserted in the tail-end of the the alimentary canal...and I'm not going there to help them extract it.

[Dane]

The Open Borders Lobby (OBL) is the same as Jesse Jackson or the gay lobby. When they run out of debating points, when they have been defeated in the argument on logic and reason, they can only fall back on screaming "NAZI! RACIST! BIGOT! HOMOPHOBE!"

We've seen it many times. Hence, calling me a neo-Nazi "Stormfront" racist, or lumping Tom Tancredo with David KKK Duke

Huh, when some on your side post such things as "dirty Mexicans" ad nauseum and then praise hillary when she flashes you all, it makes one on the right side say "hmmm".

[FBD]

denial ain't a river, Dane.

“The purpose of immigration is to create Americans.” ~Mark Krikorian
-and I might add;
The purpose of a "guest worker" program is to create indentured foreign servants, who are subsidized cheap labor for big business and agriculture, and have no vested interest in the future of this country.

The article related to that is here at 'Center fo Immigration Studies' CIS: (but I doubt you will take the time to read anything outside of your own pro-illegal/ liberal belief system)

http://www.cis.org/articles/2001/back801.html

[winker]

First of all "liberal Mort" there is no such thing as a deserving illegal aliens. The illegitimate thugs who are about stealing our "Birthright" here in America deserve nothing but detention and deportation to their country of origin!

The pandering given to this crowd of border jumping crooks is so distasteful and crude that it has become the banner of the socialist lefties who lost the last election. Mort needs to go soak his head and quit trying to sound relevant. No matter how you try to sell it mort you are still in the liberal mold and you ought to take what Fred Barnes says to heart instead of just talk talk talk! Your worn out liberal cliches don't work and you need to quit whitewashing the truth and use a litte more scrubbing on what little brain you have "left"!

[Travis McGee]

Please cut and paste where I have ever said "Dirty Mexicans," or admit you are a liar.

[Travis McGee]

It's almost a waste of time debating with RINOOBLs, they only have one note to bang on their piano.