Low-Downs On Pat-Downs (The Point)

News Central ^ | 12/05/2004 | Mark Hyman

[FreedomCalls]

El Al methods ... It was clear that the person asking the questions knew what he/she was looking for and I wasn't it.

It's called "behavioral profiling." They are looking for nervousness, evasiveness, unease, anxiety, conflicting answers to questions, etc. It works. Mineta will not allow the TSA to use similar tactics.

[Max Combined]

"Common sense"

LOL!!

[Max Combined]

Don't hold your breath.

[Max Combined]

"I assume you then will have no objection if she exerts her rights and legal procedures gleened from those regulations when she is accosted in contradiction to the regulations at the airport."

None whatsoever.

I will still think that she is a nitwit, however, when she is escorted away from the airport for not allowing a pat down.

[petercooper]

Don't profile someone like this>

[shellshocked]

"Everyone potentially poses a danger. "

Yes, they do, so you won't mind that we search your house and subject you to a rectal exam each night before you go to bed.

[Max Combined]

Key word here, ESSENTIAL liberty.

Given what we know about terrorists and the recent planes blown up in Russia by women with explosives on their bodies, it is reasonable to pat down people to discourage the same thing from happening in this country. Anyone who is so sensitive that they do not wish to be patted down is free to seek some other method of transportation.

[Knitebane]

And may you someday acquire the intellect to realize that the TSA rules can never work, no matter how many grannies they pat down.

Thus, the entire airport "security" scheme is an exercise in power, not safety.

As long as people like you lay down for it rather than standing up for your rights, we will never have safe air travel.

[ArmyTeach]

Question for you knowledgable ones. Is it true that airport screeners are limited to the number of passengers of Musliim/Arab ethnicity that they can pull aside and subject to more complete screening on any given flight? And this while grandmas from Wenatchee with knitting needles, terrified toddlers and elderly senators with hip replacements are harassed, terrified, and humiliated.

[Max Combined]

"I'd rather go to the dentist than have to deal with airport lines, getting sniffed, scanned, probed, groped, x-rayed, by some geek that used to work at Chucky Cheese."

I fly all the time. Security is just one of the many hassles involved. Such is life. Driving is no bed of roses either.

[CaptainJustice]

Members of Law Enforcement are allowed to pat anyone down who they feel might pose a threat. I don't know if this is true for TSA people, but regardless, I hate people who think there is some honor in hassling a guy trying to do his job and keep people safe.

Oooh, you didn't submit to safety regulations at the airport, way to rage against the machine!

It's a pat-down, it's not like he demanded a cavity search. Psycho Civil-libertarians are small, petty people.

[Borax Queen]

It's costing us billions. Not only that, there are a lot of people out there that are now opting out of flying, and instead using their cars or just saying, F it.

Yep, I will now only fly if my job depends on it, I have to go to a funeral short-notice, or only as a last resort. I used to fly everywhere. The humiliation of being patted down and cattle-prodded is too much. I last flew in July for a funeral before they started the groping; now I don't know how I'll be able to face flying. Our liberties are being stripped away bit by bit.

[CaptainJustice]

P.S. If you think being searched at an airport after 9/11 is humiliating, you are emotionally unstable. It's part of life. Pat downs are not tantamount to Secret Police and Gulags. Get some perspective. Lose the hyper-sensitivity. Above all, don't be a jerk at the airport. The rest of us would like to catch our flight without some Wannabe Rosa Parks trying to make a statement and holding up the line.

[Joe Hadenuf]

I fly a LOT less than I used to. I fly now only when I have to. If I can drive there in a day, even a long day, I drive. The airlines have lost quite a bit of my business.

You bet, and you can take that .38 of yours with you!

JOY!

[Knitebane]

I don't know if this is true for TSA people, but regardless, I hate people who think there is some honor in hassling a guy trying to do his job and keep people safe.

Maybe, if anything they were doing would actually keep us safe. Which it won't.

It's a pat-down, it's not like he demanded a cavity search.

Wait. That will be coming soon.

[LibertarianInExile]

Gosh, that you can read my Freepername and think you instantly know my view of reality is impressive. That you think the TSA patting down an old lady is a positive after the metal detector failed to detect anything is not.

The TSA doesn't do anything for us but unionize previously private workers. It will not prevent another 9/11 because there will not be another 9/11, since the passengers won't allow it. It serves only to annoy people who aren't a danger and studiously ignore the people most likely to be one for fear of being called racists.

Congratulations on defending these worthless p.r. lackeys for doing 'their job'--making sheep feel secure and making sure we don't spend money on a system that would protect us from real danger to our airlines and country. A nationwide El Al-style passenger profiling system. Real border control. Verifying student and tourist visa holders.

Any one of these things would be worth bothering with financially. Instead, we subsidize something worthless like fifteen union dorks (goons evidently being a PC problem with you) prancing around telling seniors to take their shoes off and raise their arms.

And by the way, you think my slant on reality is peculiar, wait until another terrorist fires up a nuke inside the U.S. because the federal government was too busy fondling old ladies for p.r. purposes instead of performing its Constitutional duty of defending the ports and borders of this nation. My slant on reality won't be so 'peculiar' then.

[Geritol]

"If she wanted to question authority, she could have done it in a letter when she got off the plane."

It is my understanding that even letters after the fact are being met with a response, if any, that the regulations are secret. TSA is not sharing their regulations. People are being jailed for violating secret laws. When laws are secret, there is no logical guarantee that people are not being punishing for breaking laws that were crafted after they were incarcerated for some whim. The constitution is supposed to protect from both secret and ex post facto laws.

[LibertarianInExile]

"There is a huge qualitative difference between "screening" someone on the one hand, and physically patting them down on the other. Perhaps this woman, who happened to be a former Congresscritter, didn't like the idea of being groped. Perhaps she, like MILLIONS of others, is ticked off at the idea that a little old lady was getting the third degree when every single day young Moslem males get a free pass in the name of "political correctness" [hawk, spit].

I am all for security, not particularly wanting to end my life by crashing into a building for the greater good of some religious fanatics who despise our country, but it must make sense (which our current screening procedures assuredly do NOT). Further, even though the government has a certain amount of authority, that authority is not unlimited. PITA she may have been, but we can't know that from the limited information here - however, PITA or not, she had a right to question where the government agents got their authority to touch her body.

The day that the gov't can do anything to us in the name of security (and we are nearly there), is the day that we've officially lost our liberties and the terrorists have won by destroying what the US used to be."

Point out where any of this is less than common sense, laughing boy.

[Max Combined]

"I see, it is OK for the security folks at the airport to grope anyone, so long as they say it is "a security matter."

No, it is OK for the security folks at the airport to do the job they are hired to do, which includes patting down a certain number of people. The security folks work according to laws passed by our elected representatives and under rules and regulations provided by the executive branch who are appointed by our elected President, all of which are subject to judicial review. You act like the security folks just pulled up to the airport and decided to start groping folks for the fun of it.

Our elected representatives have made a judgment call as far as what is the proper balance between protecting the publics privacy and protecting their lives. While the one can question the decisions they have made, it is silly to try to act like this is done in an effort to subjugate the people and take away all freedoms. If we, the people, decide to elect politicians who are in favor of not doing any searches and not doing any inspections of people getting on airplanes, we are still free to do so.

Get off your high holy horse about what a big freaking outrage it is to pat down a woman at the airport. It is a reasonable search, given the circumstances.

[.38sw]

You bet, and you can take that .38 of yours with you!

That's exactly right; sometimes I even take along my .45, depending on my mood.