Bin Laden Expert Steps Forward

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/11/12/60minutes/printable655407.shtml ^ | November 14, 2004

[Casloy]

CIA agent Michael Scheuer spoke to 60 Minutes in his first television interview out of the shadows.

He's not an agent he is an analyst (in any case, there are no Agents in the CIA). Furthermore, his work assessing Bin Laden does not give him any bit of expertise on how to fight the war on terror, or on the situation in the Middle East. He is totally unqualified to address either of those issues but the media treats him as if he is some kind of expert.

[Age of Reason]

What makes our system of government work so well is the competition of different ideas--however outrageous some may find some of those ideas to be.

And the best answer isn't always what one wants to hear.

[Max Combined]

It is to prevent bin Laden from committing acts like flying planes into American buildings that Scheuer proposes cutting the legs out from under Israel.

As Scheuer himself writes, bin Laden is the greatest hero in the Muslim community, so perhaps your Muslim friends are among the small minority of Muslims who do not consider bin Laden to be a hero.

[Max Combined]

"Your assumption that all Muslims support these actions is part of the problem."

Maybe not all, but most Muslims do support the murdering bin Laden.

"There was an opinion poll in a Kuwaiti paper," he started, "which showed that 69 percent of Kuwaitis, Egyptians, Syrians, Lebanese and Palestinians think bin Laden is an Arab hero and an Islamic Jihad warrior. ... 65 percent claimed that attacking American targets was justified, because it [is implementation of the principle of] 'an eye for an eye,' and because the American slogan is 'Might is Right' ... 76 percent would be sorry if bin Laden were caught.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=25802

[killjoy]

"There was an opinion poll in a Kuwaiti paper," he started, "which showed that 69 percent of Kuwaitis, Egyptians, Syrians, Lebanese and Palestinians think bin Laden is an Arab hero and an Islamic Jihad warrior. ... 65 percent claimed that attacking American targets was justified, because it [is implementation of the principle of] 'an eye for an eye,' and because the American slogan is 'Might is Right' ... 76 percent would be sorry if bin Laden were caught.

I remember seeing polls in the US that said Kerry was going to win the election also...

[Age of Reason]

Scheuer is not credible.

I heard him interviewed for about 45 minutes on NPR this past summer.

It was the most interesting interview on the topic I have heard.

I am not saying we should follow his advice.

But what he has to say should be discussed in detail--not just dimissed out of hand.

Revolutionary ideas may be what's needed to defend us from the dangers of modern terrorism.

[Hoplite]

It is not as if there were a bunch of different options we had up in Tora Bora. There was no way that we would have been able to get thousands of US troops up into those mountains in short order in position to block any escape of small groups of militants moving by night on small trails.

What, you mean like we tried to do during Operation Anaconda?

Wrong answer - the military started applying lessons learned during Anaconda. The point Scheuer made was that those lessons were already known.

If you've been following the battle of Fallujah, you'll have seen that it's American troops providing the security cordon, not locals. Different location, same lesson, right answer.

That we didn't have the ground assets in place to provide the security cordon ourselves at Tora Bora is a direct result of the way we fought the war in Afghanistan. If the objective was to overthrow the Taleban, it has been, I think, an unqualified success. If the objective was to kill or capture Bin Laden, given his recent 'press release', it is, to this point, a failure. Scheuer's point is that we could have done better, and we could be doing better.

If you want to call that Monday morning quarterbacking, so be it. Since you don't appear to be willing to avail yourself of the actual material under discussion (Imperial Hubris), could you tell me why I'm obliged to devote a good portion of my time to elucidating the matter for you?

Scheuer's job was to get bin Laden and he didn't do it.

You're killing me.

[Max Combined]

"Sure, just staff them all with yes-men."

Staff them with men and women who have the stomach and spine to win this war, not cave in to belligerent terrorists.

[Age of Reason]

Staff them with men and women who have the stomach and spine to win this war

What war is that?

[killjoy]

We have leverage with Israel, what leverage do we have with the Palestinians? How exactly, would you come down very hard on them? Bomb them? Shoot them? Talk to them in an angry voice while wagging your finger in their face?

I am not a foreign policy expert, I am simply telling you what has been told to me by friends of mine. The anti-American feelings in the Middle East are directly because of what is happening between the Israelis and Palestinians. How this situation will be solved, I don't know. Again, I am not the expert on the region. I do know until this is solved, don't expect peace and expect anti-American feelings to continue if not grow.

[Age of Reason]

The anti-American feelings in the Middle East are directly because of what is happening between the Israelis and Palestinians.

I think there is much more to it than that:

I think they hate us because we help to prop-up mideast governments that revolutionaries would like to overthrow.

[Max Combined]

"I remember seeing polls in the US that said Kerry was going to win the election also..."

Really? I did not see those. I saw polls showing the President up by an average of three percentage points and that was just what he won by.

Bin Laden is a hero to Muslims.

[Max Combined]

In this thread there are transcripts of two interviews of Scheuer. There is nothing interesting, original, or revolutionary about anything he says in either one.

What are Scheuer's revolutionary ideas that may be the key to defending ourselves from modern terrorism as you see them?

[killjoy]

I think they hate us because we help to prop-up mideast governments that revolutionaries would like to overthrow.

Of course this is part of it, but as it has been explained to me, there is much more hatred towards the British over this than towards us. Afterall, they were the ones who put them there to begin with.

[Max Combined]

"Revolutionary ideas may be what's needed to defend us from the dangers of modern terrorism."

He does not want to defend us, he want us to make a bargain with the devil. He is a weakling, a coward, and an appeaser.

[Max Combined]

"I heard him interviewed for about 45 minutes on NPR this past summer."

I stopped listening to NPR years ago, since they are so partisan and biased. Their All Things Considered should be called All Things Considered From a Leftist Viewpoint.

[Max Combined]

"I heard him interviewed for about 45 minutes on NPR this past summer."

I stopped listening to NPR years ago, since they are so partisan and biased. Their All Things Considered should be called All Things Considered From a Leftist Viewpoint.

[DHerion]

If the Palestinians didn't exist Muslims would have to invent them. The problem is not Israel vs. the Palestinians it's Jews vs. Arabs/Muslims. Sadat made peace with Israel and he paid for it with his life. There is always going to be a core group of fanatics who will want Israel wiped off the face of the earth no matter what deal is finally worked out.

Now as to U.S. aid to Israel. That's another issue. We do provide them several billion dollars in aid but that was part of the peace deal between Egypt and Israel. I believe Egypt gets 1.5 billion dollars a year. Israel is rich enough to get along without our money and I have no problem telling Egypt the money train is over. Would that end the anger directed at us? Probably not. We would still support Israel's right to exist and defend itself.

By the way, Osama Bin Laden's anger towards us was our presence in Saudi Arabia. It had nothing to do with our support of Israel. It was only after 9/11 when he started getting heat from several Arab states that he embraced the Palestinian cause.

[Age of Reason]

He is a weakling, a coward, and an appeaser.

I quote from the article:

"'I became too insistent that we were not pursuing this target with enough vigor and with enough risk-taking . . . . ' says Scheuer.

"One of the last proposals . . . a cruise missile attack against a remote hunting camp . . . where bin Laden was believed to be socializing with members of the royal family from the United Arab Emirates.

"Scheuer wanted to level the entire camp. 'The world is lousy with Arab princes,' says Scheuer. 'And if we could have got Osama bin Laden, and saved at some point down the road 3,000 American lives, a few less Arab princes would have been OK in my book.'

"'You couldn't have done this without killing an Arab prince,'" asks Kroft.

"And that doesn't bother him? 'Not a lick,' says Scheuer."

[Snapple]

This guy was not the Bin Laden guy.