Posted on 09/27/2004 5:02:03 PM PDT by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
They need to spray one of those flippers with spray on tan to match Kerrey's.
I saw it last night.
Uh? You lost me here. Are you suggesting that deporting millions of welfare consuming Illegals would “not” drastically lower the welfare tab American Taxpayers are currently paying today? Do I have you right on that?
Or are you suggesting that American Taxpayers will continue to pay the welfare tab of Illegal Aliens even if they are deported back to Mexico?
You can't protest the 30 year decline of of American manufacturing jobs WHEN YOUR DEAD! This election is about one really easy question.
Exactly, which is why Bush's Open Borders Agenda during a Time of War, in addition to still allowing immigration from Terrorist Harboring Nations--even after 911--makes this so-called “WOT” the sad joke it is.
As for the upcoming election, I have no dog in this fight since I'm voting for the Constitution Party candidate. I simply cannot vote for a president that encourages foreign nationals to invade our country en mass, then reward them with social goodies from A-Z on the dime of American Taxpayers....sorry. It’s quite clear that the political leadership of this country is far more concerned with promoting the interests of Illegal Aliens than the interests of the very Citizens they are supposed to represent.
IMO, both presidential candidates are unmitigated disasters for America.
In 2000, Gore was trying to Re-Invent himself all throughout the run up to the election...Now, in 2004, we've got John F'ng Kerry trying every which way to FIND himself! Bush KNOWS who he is, WHO America's ENEMIES are, and will do a great job as Commander in Chief for another 4 years.
I hear at the border with Belize you can shop at Costco and Home Depot. And the beach front real estate is cheap.
Thanks for manning the front lines for the rest of us.
Your welcome.
He's probably thinking to himself "idealogue".
Of course, this translates to working in USA and sending the money to Mexico or Canada where we KNOW they will decide to let American's own the land they build homes on (down in MExico) and Canada will bring the exchange rate more in line with the American Dollar making for a more level playing field when American's want to sell to Canada instead of it only being vis-versa.
Lastly, on my soapbox... what about all the people across the pond(s) they let into both countries, no questions asked, who want to come up (or down) here to do us great harm???
Then stop reading the articles.
The gutless Border Patrol mole is "Marine Inspector". Just like IMO the Imperial Valley "source" in news accounts is "Ajnin".
MI isn't in the Border Patrol and I have yet to write to the newspaper but hey, don't let the facts get in your way.
If these two "Marines" would come on FR and undermine their command discipline, challenge their superior officers to the detriment of their mission and duty and the morale of the Americans they serve ... you don't think they'd do it to reporters?
Here's a little news flash for you blowjobmaker, we're not in the military. There isn't any command discipline and we have as much reason and authority to comment on border issues as anybody. American morale is strengthened by the fact that MI and I are willing to slog throught the PC cesspool that hardcore open border knobslobbers like you heap upon us.
You know what? SCREW COCHISE COUNTY! We had Freepers describing a hellish landscape ad nauseum. They had a chance to change their world September 7, and they chose to sit on their asses and let hated John Kolbe beat Randy Graf 58-42.
Have you ever been/lived in Cochise Country, yeah I didn't think so. You talk a lot of shit for some newbie that doesn't even have the guts to produce a homepage.
Money talks and bullshit walks.*
MI and I are the ones with the money and you're the one with the bullshit. If you don't like what we have to say then go somewhere else, otherwise stop bitching.
I don't think if you joined in April that makes you a newbie..if you joined in September, yes..April...no.
Uh? You lost me here. Are you suggesting that deporting millions of welfare consuming Illegals would “not” drastically lower the welfare tab American Taxpayers are currently paying today? Do I have you right on that?
I'm sorry that was unclear for you. My syntax was poor. If every illegal alien was deported tomorrow, America would still have a staggering welfare tab for America's medical bills, education, housing, etc.
The crushing costs of Social Security, Medicaid, education, Social Security, farm subsities, failed business loans and grants, and other welfare programs enjoyed by Americans are cause by liberalism not immigration. Immigration just exacerbated these problems.
Get rid of the Illegal and you still have the problems. Get rid of the problems and the immigrants who come to America for a free ride will stop coming. Your fighting against a symptom of the problem, liberalism.
I AM suggesting that deporting millions of welfare consuming Illegals will "not” drastically lower the welfare tab American Taxpayers are currently paying today. There will still be many many more people on the dole. If we agree there are 12 million illegals, then I would guess 10-15% reduction in government services. Higher in Los Angelas, but lower in Madison WI. These savings would be lost many times over in the cost of locating and deporting 12 million illegals and somehow guarding the border, as well as a truely "stagering" loss of productivity in the economy. Inflation would skyrocket, followed by interest rates, and finally more unemployment than we have today. Then President Hitlery would enact the "Greater Society."
Exactly, which is why Bush's Open Borders Agenda during a Time of War, in addition to still allowing immigration from Terrorist Harboring Nations--even after 911--makes this so-called “WOT” the sad joke it is.
I think most people don't care about immigration. On the surface they may say "Illegals are in the country illegally...and that is wrong," but Americans like cheap food and shelter. I think most people understand 95% of Illegals are just looking for a job and a better life. I think most people are fine with anyone coming to America as long as they have a job, mow the lawn, and pay their taxes. I think most people are good, and I think most people who want to work are working. Now if you could put yourself in my head you might understand why I think It make no sense at all to deport people who want to work crappy jobs for low pay. I think it make much more sense to go after the...picking a figure out of thin air...100-1000 terrorists who cross the border every year than the...here I go again...3 million that cross to find a good home.
As for the upcoming election, I have no dog in this fight since I'm voting for the Constitution Party candidate. I simply cannot vote for a president that encourages foreign nationals to invade our country en mass, then reward them with social goodies from A-Z on the dime of American Taxpayers....sorry.
I'm just happy your not cutting out the middleman and voting directly for the 'rats.
It’s quite clear that the political leadership of this country is far more concerned with promoting the interests of Illegal Aliens than the interests of the very Citizens they are supposed to represent.
Well you can bet the bank that the Constitution party you vote for will never get elected to positions of power...and therefore they can never fail to please you. Republicans will make the desicions for you and there are two things you can do about it. Nothing, and like it.
You make no sense. It would be "less” of a burden, wouldn’t it? Also, what about the very “principle” of providing federal/state/local assistance to a group of people that have no rights to be here anyway.
The crushing costs of Social Security, Medicaid, education, Social Security, farm subsities, failed business loans and grants, and other welfare programs enjoyed by Americans are cause by liberalism not immigration. Immigration just exacerbated these problems.
News Flash to Once-Ler: the crushing costs of Social Security were just made “more crushing” by Bush with his “liberal” decision to include Mexican Nationals, and yes, Amnestied Illegal Aliens (watch the other foot drop here) into OUR Social Security program. To push this through Bush lied about the Costs of adding Mexicans until the CBO outted him on it. Yet ever to pander, he went ahead with it anyway.
Regarding “liberalism” and “immigration” you have the cause and effect exactly 100% backward. Immigration, particularly the hyper-levels of 3rd world immigration America has been experiencing since 1965 has been a primary driver of liberalism. The massive rise of the immigrant class in America has translated into millions of net votes for the democrats and is a natural constituency for their socialism. I don't understand why so many republicans like you are blind to this. Do you honestly believe a majority in this New Underclass are going to vote for conservative candidates when they have been pampered with social spending from the time of their arrival in America.
Get rid of the Illegal and you still have the problems. Get rid of the problems and the immigrants who come to America for a free ride will stop coming. Your fighting against a symptom of the problem, liberalism.
Again, you have a mental block on this. Get rid of the Illegals and you have greatly reduced the problems of out of control government spending. Repeat after me: reducing problems is good, reducing problems is good. Like I said previously, it is the rapid rise of the immigrant underclass that is a main driver of liberalism. This is particularly true since assimilation is waning because of the massive scale of the illegal alien influx.
I AM suggesting that deporting millions of welfare consuming Illegals will "not” drastically lower the welfare tab American Taxpayers are currently paying today.
Tell that to the good folks in CA and other Border States. You apparently have no appreciation for the great burdens supporting Illegal Aliens have placed on the taxpayers of this nation. CA's massive debt and budget woes should be exhibit A--and YES welfare costs of the Illegals are a good part of it. I travel throughout WI quite a bit as a property owner there and let me tell you as a resident of IL, you have yet to experience the ravages of illegal immigration that we here in IL experience everyday. And IL is not as nearly as bad as CA, AZ, TX, NM. You have a rude awakening coming your way. Enjoy the relative peace and tranquillity while it lasts. BTW, did you know IL used to be a mostly republican state?
There will still be many many more people on the dole. If we agree there are 12 million illegals, then I would guess 10-15% reduction in government services. Higher in Los Angelas, but lower in Madison WI. These savings would be lost many times over in the cost of locating and deporting 12 million illegals and somehow guarding the border, as well as a truely "stagering" loss of productivity in the economy.
LOL. You are grasping at straws and making up your own facts as you go. Actually the costs of deporting Illegals are quite low in comparison of the great bureaucracy of government workers that are needed to dole out this welfare. The most cost-effective way of combating illegal immigration is to enforce penalties against businesses that hire illegals. These labor laws are already on the books awaiting to be enforced again. It would not take very long if hundreds of companies were penalized for employing illegal labor before most businesses get the message and stop the practice.
When that happens, many Illegals will deport themselves, especially when their revolving line of welfare services are cut off too. As for your loss of productivity argument you completely dismiss what really happens when artificially low labor rates come into play. What happens is that it creates disincentives for inventors and engineers to risk money in developing labor saving devices that automate and replace the need for centuries old reliance on manual labor. Not to mention the thousands of Americans such new industries would employ in new cutting edge new technologies.
Inflation would skyrocket, followed by interest rates, and finally more unemployment than we have today. Then President Hitlery would enact the "Greater Society."
No it wouldn't. It might rise a little but taxpayers would come out ahead because more would be saved in the form of lower government spending.
The thing I find so interesting in your world of cheap manual labor where putting the focus on using our good ol’ yankee know how and noodle to work to create new labor saving devices and push technology forward is non-existent is your world. To control inflation over the long term in your cheap manual labor world would by it’s very nature require an endless supply of illegal labor…forever. Apparently you think little of innovation and automation to solve common problems.
I think most people don't care about immigration. On the surface they may say "Illegals are in the country illegally...and that is wrong," but Americans like cheap food and shelter.
In poll after poll the American people clearly state by large majorites that they are against illegal immigration. But you do bring up a valid point. As of yet this issue (crisis) has not translated into a major poltical flash point with most people outside of the Border States. But the way this invasion is growing into all corners of America it is only a matter of time before to will be major issue with most Americans. Already, within at least the republican party, many at the grassroots level are making it an issue. Watch it grow year after year.
I think most people understand 95% of Illegals are just looking for a job and a better life. I think most people are fine with anyone coming to America as long as they have a job, mow the lawn, and pay their taxes. I think most people are good, and I think most people who want to work are working. Now if you could put yourself in my head you might understand why I think It make no sense at all to deport people who want to work crappy jobs for low pay. I think it make much more sense to go after the...picking a figure out of thin air...100-1000 terrorists who cross the border every year than the...here I go again...3 million that cross to find a good home.
New Flash to Once-Ler: those “crappy jobs” used to be filled by Americans, particularly high school and college students. And things seemed to work very well back then. Remember when most Dads could support their families without needing their wives to work? These days a lot of kids have a hard time finding decent paying work as they save for their future. Why? They are priced out of the market by Illegals.
And Lot’s of Luck trying to pick out terrorists coming over the border when thousands cross the border daily and 90% get through because Bush has provided little in the way of resources to protect our borders. It’s like trying to find a needle in a haystack.
This is to say nothing of the fact that large areas of America are being turned into colonies of Mexico where Spanish is the primary language. And to say nothing of the overcrowding and skyrocketing population growth that is placing ever-greater demands on government and resources that translate into higher Taxes. It’s insane what’s happening in America but apparently you want America to be as overcrowded as China and India, or perhaps like the idea of America being the flop house of the 3rd world.
Well you can bet the bank that the Constitution party you vote for will never get elected to positions of power...and therefore they can never fail to please you. Republicans will make the desicions for you and there are two things you can do about it. Nothing, and like it.
After decades of voting for and supporting the GOP I have given up on the party. The GOP is where the Democratic Party was in the 70s and is totally bought and paid for by special interests. Deep pocketed special interests that care little about America or her future. The preservation of America’s sovereignty is my deepest concern—all other issue pale by comparison. Unfortunately both parties want to bring down America’s sovereignty. So, Once-Ler I really don’t care who wins the Beltway popularity contest. I just want the republicans know where this conservative vote is going.
Yes. As I wrote...
I would guess 10-15% reduction in government services.
Also, what about the very “principle” of providing federal/state/local assistance to a group of people that have no rights to be here anyway.
What about the very “principle” of providing federal/state/local assistance to anybody? You're upset about 10% of the welfare I'm concerned about all 100% and I will not be distracted by the media pitting illegal leeches against the citizen leeches both fighting for their piece of the pie.
News Flash to Once-Ler: the crushing costs of Social Security were just made “more crushing” by Bush with his “liberal” decision to include Mexican Nationals, and yes, Amnestied Illegal Aliens (watch the other foot drop here) into OUR Social Security program.
The Totalization Treaty apples to legal workers not illegal workers. But hell, the Illegals are working and paying social security taxes. At least they are contributing something to the economy. Some Americans do not.
The massive rise of the immigrant class in America has translated into millions of net votes for the democrats and is a natural constituency for their socialism. I don't understand why so many republicans like you are blind to this.
I understand what you are saying I just reject your premise. The Republican Party is no longer a party of just white business men. I believe our party is best hope for all people. I don't believe there is anything inherently inferior about the illegals that would prevent them from recognizing what I see.
Repeat after me: reducing problems is good, reducing problems is good.
OK. "Reducing problems is good, reducing problems is good," but it's not completely true. You have stumble upon a nugget of truth. Bravo. Reducing problems is good, but substituting one problem for a bigger problem is not good. See how that little extra part of the equation is crucial?
Again as I wrote...and you even quoted...
"These savings would be lost many times over in the cost of locating and deporting 12 million illegals and somehow guarding the border, as well as a truly "staggering" loss of productivity in the economy."
Tell that to the good folks in CA and other Border States.
Again as I wrote...and you even quoted...
The savings would be "Higher in Los Angelas, but lower in Madison WI."
BTW, did you know IL used to be a mostly republican state?
Yes. Did you know Texas used used to be a mostly republican state? Gotta love that "natural constituency!"
You are grasping at straws and making up your own facts as you go. Actually the costs of deporting Illegals are quite low in comparison of the great bureaucracy of government workers that are needed to dole out this welfare.
I'm grasping for straws and you back up your assertions with nothing more than your own opinion. Whatever.
To control inflation over the long term in your cheap manual labor world would by it’s very nature require an endless supply of illegal labor…forever.
No eventually machines will replace many of the tasks that Illegals now perform. Gradually over time the unskilled jobs that attracted Illegals will disappear.
What happens is that it creates disincentives for inventors and engineers to risk money in developing labor saving devices that automate and replace the need for centuries old reliance on manual labor.
I see no need to fire the illegals in order to generate these job replacing machines. The market will produce them when they are needed.
And things seemed to work very well back then. Remember when most Dads could support their families without needing their wives to work?
No I don't. It must be those fabled 50's you're talking about. Back in those days when they didn't have slums and poor people. Well you didn't see any of them in your neighborhood I'm sure.
These days a lot of kids have a hard time finding decent paying work as they save for their future.
"Kids" don't save for the future. Parents save for the future. Bag boys and burger flippers should not be supporting a family of 4 and do not deserve 401ks, even if they were born in America. The unemployment rate is 5.4%. Most people who want to work are working.
It’s insane what’s happening in America but apparently you want America to be as overcrowded as China and India, or perhaps like the idea of America being the flop house of the 3rd world.
Well, I bet that was fun for you to write. You didn't even have to think about it. I have a family. I love my country. I disagree with you because you're wrong.
I meant Democrat state.
Guess is a good word for it because I sincerely doubt “your guess” is taking into consideration the “entire” social Bill, which American Taxpayers pay, for their free health care, public schooling, public housing, incarceration costs for those jailed--which already accounts for more than 20% of the national prison population. Then we have the associated costs for new hospitals, new schools, new roads, more government expansion that is driven in large part by the rapid population growth of Illegal Aliens and their offspring.
What about the very “principle” of providing federal/state/local assistance to anybody?
This sounds funny coming from a RINO. I am Conservative that wants government out of the business of rewarding inactivity and failure. Yet even the Republican Party today is for such assistance. So I find it more than a little outrageous that American Taxpayers are ALSO forced to pay for the welfare of people who even don't belong here. Apparently this does not bother you.
The Totalization Treaty apples to legal workers not illegal workers. But hell, the Illegals are working and paying social security taxes. At least they are contributing something to the economy. Some Americans do not.
LOL. Illegals are working and paying social security taxes? Tell me how this can be when most Illegals, being Illegal, don't have a Social Security # and work for under the table cash? You really are naive about what is going on in the underground world of Illegal Labor/
And to say that the Totalization treaty only applies to Legal immigrants is equally disingenuous. Sure, after George Bush Amnesties 12 million or more Illegals they then, in our government’s eyes, become technically "legal". That does not take away from the FACT that they WERE Illegal and ARE Illegal TODAY and will receive SS benefits in the years to come if this insanity is approved. This, as the SS program is already on the brink of insolvency. Nice to see where our government’s priorities are and what they think about the American Citizens of this land that pays their salaries.
I understand what you are saying I just reject your premise. The Republican Party is no longer a party of just white businessmen. I believe our party is best hope for all people. I don't believe there is anything inherently inferior about the illegals that would prevent them from recognizing what I see.
Where did I say the Republican Party is a party of white businessmen? Let me tell you something, when a foreign country is allowed to invade America with impunity, in staggering numbers, for decades, overwhelming large areas of America to the point that assimilation no longer happens, you can forget about what party these immigrants will gravitate too. Once they have the numbers they will decide what kind of government THEY want, for THEMSELVES, and party identity will be the least of our concerns.
I'm grasping for straws and you back up your assertions with nothing more than your own opinion. Whatever.
No I backed up my assertions with common sense and logic. Something wholly devoid in your multiple attempts to change to subject and evade my points. You do realize, don't you, that the INS/BICE mechanism for enforcing our labor laws on those who employ illegal labor already exists, don’t you? The trouble is, these federal laws are not being enforced because the Cheap Labor Lobby has paid off enough polticans like Bush to suspend the law. Reinstating the enforcement of labor laws pertaining to illegal labor is certainly more cost effective than hiring tens of thousand of new border patrol agents, though I am in favor of this too.
No eventually machines will replace many of the tasks that Illegals now perform. Gradually over time the unskilled jobs that attracted Illegals will disappear.
When? Over what period of time? What is “Gradually”? You don't see how artificially depressed wages (slave wages) retards innovation? What incentive is there today for an inventor to risk hard earned money to develop a machine that automates manual labor when the wages for Illegals are so low as to greatly limit the potential savings of such automation?
"Kids" don't save for the future. Parents save for the future. Bag boys and burger flippers should not be supporting a family of 4 and do not deserve 401ks, even if they were born in America. The unemployment rate is 5.4%. Most people who want to work are working.
You really are out of touch. While the employment market for teenagers may be good in WI and other regions not inundated with Illegals...YET, the situation is entirely different in Border States where many of the jobs Teenagers used to do to *yes* PAY for things like their education have gone to Illegals. Time for you to get out a little and open your eyes.
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