Posted on 09/21/2004 8:24:29 PM PDT by GIJoel
Ahh so you now agree that America and Russia were friends and allies in the past, unlike your previous statement.....well I'm glad to see that there is progress being made in our therapy.
A. Pole wrote:
"Because they were not defeated in the war or revolution. They gave up their power without bloodshed and most of the crimes were committed several decades ago."
By your standards: 1. apartide must still rule in S.Africa, since there were no trials, etc, and 2. Pinoche must still be a dictator of Chile. For that matter, Facists still rule Spain and in all those monarchies of Europe, the kings are still fully in charge. After all there were no revolutions and since governments can only change with violence and blood, there is no other way. What about Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia? All EU/NATO members and yet not in one was there a general revolution. The participating states of the Soviet Union simply decided they no longer wanted to be part of it and the military backed down during the coup from supporting the Politburo. It was actually Russia and Ukraine, the two key states who first declared independence. The rest followed shortly.
There are plenty of sites in Russia for mourning and meusums to victems. But whom will you prosecute? If Stalin's purges ended in 1949, let us say the youngest soldier who might have had something to do with that was: 17 years old then, he would now be: 71 years old.
Prosecuting a bunch of old men, if nothing else, gives them sympathy. They are dieing off seeing everything they worked to accomplish thrown out and forgotten, that is punishment and soon they will have God's punishment.
As for criminals, Stalin's daughter and Kruschov's son are US citizens. Gorbachov makes his millions in the US. Several KGB generals are now US residents or citizens. Shevernadze and Alli of Azerbajan were KGB generals and were closest of US allies. If you want to find these criminals, luckily for you, you do not have to go far, most are either here or Canada or England, having been persuaded to leave Russia by the less then grateful public there.
Have at it, prosecute.
God, I need to check my spelling, that last post was horrible.
He posed the question, and I answered it.
He wanted to know who got blamed for the mission going to s$%t, and the answer was that we blamed Carter; it cost him the Presidency.
Putin's two hostage rescue attempts have netted less than sixty terrorists, and over 500 civilian deaths...Putin is incompetent just like Carter was incompetent.
In contrast, the Israelis rescued the hostages at Entebbe, killed all terrorists, and lost only three hostages.
Yeah, blame the terrorists for taking the hostages, and they should all die for targeting defenseless civilians, but for crying out loud, quit carrying water for a communist dictator wannabe who's been slaughtering civilians by the thousands for years in Chechnya, and now wants to claim moral equivalency between 9/11, and Beslan.
We committed no atrocities which led to the attacks on 9/11, but the undeniable truth is that Russia's atrocities in Chechnya have led to the current situation there.
Russians kill Chechen civilians, Chechens kill Russian civilians. People in this forum have justified the bombing of Chechen population centers as just being part of war...civilians die. Yet, they turn around and condemn the Chechens for waging war back at the people waging war on them because they killed civilians!
Well, the Russian bombs that fell on Grozny for months on end weren't designed to avoid children.
And for the record Putin=Andropov.
It rocks.
"Therapy"?
You pompous $^%#%$$.
Your best effort is one incident over 143 years ago.
You need therapy.
Chechens will never get any sympathy as long as they're cozying up to al-Qaeda. That's a fact.
1. S. Africa is now run by the Communist ANC. 2. Pinochet was an anti-Communist and voluntarily relinquished power, leaving the country in the best shape it had ever been in (although, the Communists are beginning to regain power in Chile as evidenced by the growing domestic and foreign effort to charge Pinochet with war crimes). AS for the EU/NATO members, like I said, these bloodless revolutions were planned and implemented FROM THE TOP. If these kindler, gentler revolutions had been for real, blood would have been flowing in the streets, and large numbers of Communists would have been executed and/or given long prison terms.
Again, it was a list of incidents, not one and even one is more then you claimed. As for cursing, I have done you the honor of not acting like a small jilted child, if you can't do the same, maybe you need a time out and learn to count to 10?
I do not deny any of that, but by your standards none of that is a reality, because like in the Soviet Union, the previous rulers left without blood shed, that is unless you are using a blatently double standard. Are you?
Thanks, need a spell checker, personal weakness.
To clarify a little. The spontaneous grass root democracy was finished in Russia at the request of Western free marketeers with the massacre of Parliament by Yeltsin in 1993.
The Duma led by a Chechen - Ruslan Khasbulatov was resisting the rapid fire sale "privatisation" which led to the dispossesion of Russian people. This was the real beginning of Chechen revolt, before Wahabi missionaries came from Saudi Arabia and confused the situation.
Putin who is very popular with Russians (about 70% as opposed to the %7 for Yelstin in the last years of his rule) is restoring Russian democracy on a strong presidency model - similar to the France.
If Germany did NOT lose the war and Nazis stepped down voluntarily the Nurenberg trial would not take place. Just accept the obvious, PLEASE!
Jb6 wtote: "If Stalin's purges ended in 1949, let us say the youngest soldier who might have had something to do with that was: 17 years old then, he would now be: 71 years old."
Jb6 Wrote: "I do not deny any of that, but by your standards none of that is a reality, because like in the Soviet Union, the previous rulers left without blood shed, that is unless you are using a blatently double standard. Are you?"
NOPE, I AM APPLYING THE SAME STANDARD TO BOTH--THE TRUTH.
Fine, why don't you initiate the prosecution of former NKWD/KGB/UB (UB - Stalin's era secret police in Poland) officials living in the West. Good luck!
A. Pole,
I said, 7 million were murdered during the POST, POST, POST-Stalin period. POST-STALIN, POST-STALIN, POST, POST, POST-STALIN period. Did I mention that 7 million were murdered during the POST-STALIN period???
The Russian military is a relatively weak instrument in the best of times for this stuff; it is a bludgeon, not a scalpel. This ain't the best of times for them. That is, for example, why they used the gas in Moscow--because they needed every tactical edge they could get.
Just out of idle curiousity...
Let's suppose you're Vladimir Putin's replacement, as of today. Another Beslan attack goes down.
Given the very weak state of the Russian armed forces, how would you handle the crisis? Use armed force (and probably kill a bunch of civilians)? Give the terrorists what they want (and encourage more of the same)? Do nothing, let the terrorists kill their hostages?
Chechnya can thank their Moon God that I'm not the guy in the Kremlin, because I would've glassed the entire place by now.
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