Posted on 08/21/2004 5:47:15 AM PDT by TigerLikesRooster
"The question is how hard would average Taiwanese fight. Many Taiwanese are actually very liberal and I am fairly certain private gun ownership is banned."
I am by no stretch a Taiwanese expert or a Sinologist, however I have done business and traveled in & out of Taiwan for 10+ years and currently live on Taiwan.
With that let me put in $.Sid's worth.
Taiwan has only had free elections since 1996. It is a fledgling democracy that is making the transition to a representative republic in the manner that will work for it.
It is very divided along a number of different lines. Language, culture, family origins - just to name a few. The phrase you use to say 'Good Morning' to some one can start a political argument - its that sensitive.
Maybe not the same as in the USA, but they will find what works for them here.
There is much ethnic/political/societal division here. The Hakka (Aboriginal peoples), the KMT, The New Party, The DPP and a dozen or more political groups are all vying for recognition in the Gov't. Add to this an equal number of fringe and PRC subversive groups and you have a very lively mix. Its not uncommon for legislators to come to blows on the hearing floors. Real fist-fights and the resultant public apologies to "keep face" is a common occurrence. "Face" is a VERY powerful factor in life here.
Private ownership of guns in any form is extremely illegal. I am a NRA life member since 1960, and very PRO 2nd Amendment in the USA, I am also damn glad that its illegal here. PM me if you want my reasons, but that the way I feel after seeing what life here is like. And I am NOT anti-Taiwan or Taiwanese people.
The Taiwanese military would put up a very good fight. They are for the most part competent, well-trained and well equipped. The 1st Taiwanese officer to go thru SEAL school just returned and is pretty much a national hero. Would the average Taiwanese citizen fight the PRC invaders? IMHO...no. They would not. Sorry if that p.o's anyone; but that is my opinion.
The average Taiwanese just wants to make as much money as possible. If adjusting to a new form of Gov't is whats needed for them to do this...then they would adjust.
Just an anecdote with an insight into the culture here - Did you know there are no 'Stop' signs here? I have not seen one. There are traffic lights; but no stop signs.
Why is this you ask? Because its generally accepted that nobody would use them, so they save the cost of making and installing them. To hell with the cost of life and property that results from this decision. For-warned is for-armed.
If you don't know what is Taiwan independence movement, go do a search on the internet.
The truth will shock you, as least that is if you are pro-ROC.
Nice post, but I'm not sure what your obsession with stop signs is.
This is an FYI post. The hakkas are Chinese, not the Taiwanese aboriginals. They are the smaller Chinese emigrant group that went to Taiwan from during the 18th and 19th centuries. In mandarin pinyin system it is kejia -- guest people. They are not aboriginal, like A-Mei for example.
People who've come from families where hakka is spoken are maybe a quarter to 30% of the population.
Good hearing from someone who actually lives on Taiwan. In your experience, how do the native Taiwanese (those who were there before the Nationalists fled China to Taiwan in 1949) feel about the whole independence/reunification issue?
I do not seek your affirmation. Did your usual crack & cheap whisky medication wear off?
FYI...on the Island of Taiwan, formerly known as Formosa, the ethic group currently referred to as 'aboriginal' is popularly designated as Hakka or Hoklos. On this previous Saturday and Sunday the annial Hakka Memorial Ceremony was held in Taipei at the Taipei City Hall Square. Taipei Mayor Ma Ying-jeou spoke in Hakka asking the Yimin ancestors to guard over the country and its people. Hakka is a separate language. As is Taiwanese; as is Mandarin Chinese (the prevailing Chinese dialect on Taiwan). The Taiwanese Aboriginal affairs office, the Council for Hakka Affairs is headed by Lou Wen-jia, who is Hakka. This is a 'Cabinet' level office.
The word Hakka means "guests." It may have stemmed from the facts that the Hakka seemed to be guests to the locals when they migrated to their areas.
They appear to have their ethnological roots in the Central Plains region of mainland China; but there is record of 5 major migrations from this area.
Their recorded history strecthes 1,600 yrs, and their numbers have grown to over 65 million. There is currently an estimated 4 million Hakka living on Taiwan.
I do not presently have a date on their migration to Taiwan, but they appear to be the first group to have established permanent residence and culture on the Island. They currently are accorded "Aboriginal" stature under the laws of the Island.
Their language is unique to them. Their dress is unique as are their cultural and village legal system and local governmental affairs system. They also have their own Temple's devoted to the 'Yimins.' This is to honor those Hakkas who sacrificed in the fight against rebel oppositions movements against the Ching authorities in Taiwan.
As I made clear, I am not an expert on these matters. This is just a brief overview of the Aboriginal culture group known as the Hakkas on Taiwan.
I am not trying to duck the question, but I honestly do not have a viable answer to that one. The Hakka pretty much just want to be autonomous and get their, or what they think is their due. They want political recognition. They are leading the group in a lot of enviromental concerns areas. And rightly so for them and the health of the island.
I will keep an eye on this question, which is a good one, and try to see how this should be answered.
Weird.
Here, this is simply a nice gesture on my part in correcting you so you know. The aboriginals are the tribal people who've lived on Taiwan for millenia. A-Mei is the most famous one. Anthropologically they are related to malay-indonesians.
Hakka are not aboriginal they are Chinese immigrants from the 18th and 19th centuries.
An analogy to early US would be that Hakka are like, say, German immigrants compared to the minnan (Taiwanese speakers) who'd be like english or british. The aboriginals are like the American indians.
I wasn't and am not trying to criticize you in any way and the stop sign comment was meant to be in fun, if you thought it was some sort of slam.
If you haven't, take a trip to Hualien or Taitung.
As I re-stated, I am not an expert in this matter. I can only post that information as is current under the laws and culture of Taiwan.
You are mistaken is all. The law does not say this. You read something that was mistaken or made the mistake yourself.
Hakka are Han chinese.
tallhappy...Under the current laws and culture of the Island of Taiwan, the Hakka group of peoples are considered aboriginal/indigenous peoples. This is their status. There is no way you can truthfully say otherwise. The information I posted about their origins is exactly the same as you use as reference to dis-agree with me. HOW IS THAT?
Face it...you are posting merely to argue. I do not have time to play your disruptive games.
I was trying to be nice and point out your mistake so that in the future you wouldn't make such an error.
I am not arguing. There is nothing to argue about.
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