Posted on 05/31/2004 9:00:49 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
My mother made an interesting comment about this. The human body/mind has the will/desire to survive at all costs. This is the flesh. She spoke of how we must learn to crucify the fleshly wills and desires of our bodies and minds that we would be obedient to His will to the point of death.
I'd rather WAIT to find out if I'm going to heaven.
You'd do the same thing too though, you're just too in love with yourself (not your faith) to admit it though.
When it counted? He lied to devils of hell to thwart their objective to spread murder and mayhem.
No one in their right mind will fault him to lie to these perverts. This guy now can live a life confessing Christ to his family, friends, and neighbors, or he can choose not to. That is what he will be judged on, for goodness sakes. To not see this is mind-boggling, imho.
Well said.
It doesn't seem out of context to me. Christ is talking about what it means to be his follower. Read the next few verses for the context.
In those kinds of situations I tell a person that it is none of their business rather than lie about it....whatever "it" happens to be. It has cost me at times, too.
This pretty well concisely sums up this 600+ post thread.
How did he thwart their objective to spread murder and mayhem? People still died. What is he going to be a witness of? How to deny Christianity and save your rear? Where in the bible is it permissable to lie? If it is then Christianity has the same tenants as Islam.
WEll I have been in a similar situation several times. But that is beside the point. I was only trying to make the point of what the scripture says compared to this situation. Christ expects me to live up to a higher standard. I do not speak condeming this man, but clearly what Christ is calling me to do is live up to His standard.
Thanks for that link. I've been looking for something better than what I have been using.
So, should ALL Christians being persecuted, some to the point of death, in various places all over the world lie about their faith?
I hope I never put myself in the situation where I have choose. My gut instinct is to say that I would not deny Jesus. I have no idea what would happen in real life.
So far, I've not been called in as a missionary...but those who do IMHO..are in great danger. I know this poor guy wasn't a missionary..but the story (if all reports are accurate) itself is a confession of sorts.
The Koran says that it is permissable to lie to your enemies. Do you agree with the Koran?
Fearful? Heck yeah! Anyone who says they would not be is a liar. This guy seems quite smart to me.
It's a pretty difficult thing to imagine. We haven't had to face this kind of thing up till now --- when "defending your faith" only meant possibly standing up to a little ridicule at the most it was not really very hard to defend it. When you're comfortable and safe inside a church, it's pretty easy to renounce Satan.
Luke 12:4-9
"I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that have no more that they can do. "But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him! "Are not five sparrows sold for two cents? Yet not one of them is forgotten before God. "Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Do not fear; you are more valuable than many sparrows. "And I say to you, everyone who confesses Me before men, the Son of Man will confess him also before the angels of God; but he who denies Me before men will be denied before the angels of God."
So, I am to gather from your post that when the enemy comes and threatens us with death unless we deny our faith that we should all lie? That is the smart thing to do, right? Their obejective is to kill Christians and Jews. If we all deny our faith then we can all live in peace?
thanks for posting that Terp... Matt, Mark, Luke and John each basically tell their own versions of the life of Jesus...so to see that Luke spoke of the same words...isn't surprising.
My point is that he's talking about the disciples..and the terrible encounters they would have to face prior to the crucifixtion... (I think..am waiting for anyone to correct the context, if I'm incorrect)
Oh, good grief. He thwarted their objective to spread mayhem for him, his family, and friends. He stayed alive and communicated via cellphone to the police and perhaps aided in saving quite a few lives. It must be quite a weight on your shoulders, to know the good that everyone else should be doing and be unable to force them to do it.
Where in the bible is it permissable to lie?
That is not the question for people whose hope is in the resurrection of Christ. We live according to the law of love. If love is better served by lying or murder or anything else, then so be it. Of course, no one should ever break a moral law willy-nilly. Scrutiny should be applied and care should be taken - love demands at least that. But who among us would not have murdered Hitler if given the chance, knowing what we now know.
If it is then Christianity has the same tenants as Islam.
I would assert that if all Christianity has to offer is the letter of the law, it has nothing much to offer Muslims.
Straw man! Situations change and living a life of love may require the ultimate sacrifice in a certain scenario. Pray for wisdom to recognize how love is better served and the courage to do it.
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