Friedman: U.S. can't, and shouldn't, keep every job

Salt Lake Tribune ^ | 2/29/2004 | Thomas Friedman

[familyofman]

"I say bring these low-paying, low-demand, jobs back and make the welfare people work at them."

Now that's what I call free-market capitalism!!!!

[Born Conservative]

These out-sourced jobs would be excellent for the uneducated welfare bums

There's plenty of hamburgers to flip and toilets to clean; no need to bring these jobs back...

[Monty22]

"Economists believe that a certain percentage of the workforce (maybe 1-2%) is so useless and unproductive, that it's cheaper for society to pay their unemployment benefits since they are actually a net drain on an employer who is unfortunate enough to give them a job. They actually decrease productivity and increase costs so much when they are working, that it's cheaper to keep them on the dole."

Well, that's kinder than what Hitler wanted to do with those types.

[WilliamofCarmichael]

Never thought I see it revealed that Hillary and Thomas Friedman are heroes. :>)

According to the WSJ (Daniel Henninger) Hillary defended outsourcing against Lou Dobbs' criticism of Tata Consultancy in Buffalo by saying, "I know they outsource jobs," the senator replied with the patience of Job, "but they've brought jobs to Buffalo. You know, outsourcing does work both ways."

"I'm not in favor of putting up fences around the country," said the Senator.

So, free traders have new champions? That's good.

Free traders, please ask your champions the following. If American corporations must outsource to stay competitive and/or to find competent workers how do companies like Tata, European companies, and Japanese companies make it here when they "outsource" to us? Like, that's good. Almost everone agrees that even the lowly "disgusting" factory jobs outsourced here are good. No one can answer that question without becoming a whirling dervish, I bet.

[NavyCaptain]

We are on the same wave-length. I too can't understand these folks.

[gitmo]

Economists believe that a certain percentage of the workforce (maybe 1-2%) is so useless and unproductive, that it's cheaper for society to pay their unemployment benefits since they are actually a net drain on an employer who is unfortunate enough to give them a job. They actually decrease productivity and increase costs so much when they are working, that it's cheaper to keep them on the dole.

Where did this statement come from? I can't see an employer keeping on a "worker" who is a net drain on the company. Why keep them on the payroll?? Put their derriers out the front door. If someone is able to work, but chooses not to work, they shouldn't be paid by the government, by charities, or by businesses.

[StriperSniper]

I thought it would be Milton Friedman. :(

[Modernman]

I can't see an employer keeping on a "worker" who is a net drain on the company. Why keep them on the payroll??

Any large organization, whether a corporation, government or Free Republic, is going to have a certain percentage of dead wood. Unfortunately, some of the really bad dead wood is also very good at keeping their heads down and avoiding scrutiny, especially in a large corporation.

If someone is able to work, but chooses not to work, they shouldn't be paid by the government, by charities, or by businesses.

You'll get no argument from me on this one. I was just trying to make the point that, if we're going to have the dole anyway, it's actually more economically efficient to keep certain people out of the workplace altogether.

[1rudeboy]

. . . I did no modification from the source.

Yes you did. You removed the paragraphs.

[Copernicus]

Someday I hope we can find a way to shift this debate to include important concepts such as the difference between JOBS and WORK (or "work product")

Not everyone can or should have a "job". But most people find "work" whether it is considered "productive" or "unproductive".

One of my favorite examples is Vincent Van Gogh. He was relatively impoverished throughout his life, but produced "work product" which has high contemporary value from which neither he nor his estate ever profited.

Best regards,

[Born Conservative]

No, I didn't remove the paragraphs. Why would I take the time to do that? This thread was directly copied and pasted into the posting page; I made no changes whatsoever.

This seems to be a tin foil hat moment for you, but rest assured, I'm not out to make your life miserable by posting without paragraph formatting; that's just the way it happened.

[Iron Matron]

There's plenty of hamburgers to flip and toilets to clean; no need to bring these jobs back...


LOL, but Americans dont want THOSE jobs. They want the outsourced jobs!

[Iron Matron]

Now that's what I call free-market capitalism!!!!

Why not?

Welfare recipients are currently getting paid, in part by me, for doing absolutely nothing. Let them have their pride and honor back by getting them off the welfare rolls and on a REAL job!

Oh, thats right, if they had pride and honor in the first place, they would not be on welfare. My mistake!

[Iron Matron]

They actually decrease productivity and increase costs so much when they are working, that it's cheaper to keep them on the dole.


I know the kind of employee you are talking about. I also believe it is a ruse they use to stay on welfare. So, the solution would be to Let. Them. Starve. The haves should not be forced to pay for the ever-lazy have nots!

[lewislynn]

The only thing that bothers me is how truly dumb platitudes about the jobs situation seem to infect Presidential (and other) politics.

They made the rules they play by.

[dennisw]

F off and die Freidman. I've heard more intelligence coming from drunks in a bar. YOu have been stupid about the Middle East for a decade and you're stupid on this.

[lewislynn]

Even an Indian cartoon company isn't just taking American jobs, it's also making them.

But how many Indian's are getting layed off to make them...that's what's getting lost in the (phony) rhetoric.

[dennisw]

What a strange point of view. Doesn't he understand that the conventional wisdom is that each and every last Manufacturing Job (=the best kind of job in the world) must stay here forever and ever?

STRAW MAN ARGUMENT! We are bleeding the best jobs now not the "crap" jobs that were vital to blue collar Americans survival. Those jobs were sold down the river last decade. While promises were made they would be replaced by hi tech jobs of the future.

Meanwhile the trade deficits yawn wider each year. That's what happens when you ship jobs abroad.

[Dr. Frank fan]

It is important to rememeber no one reporting on outsourcing actually has to worry about it happening to their job.

Yes, of course. Because that makes the things they write false.

[Dr. Frank fan]

["Manufacturing" Jobs] STRAW MAN ARGUMENT! We are bleeding the best jobs now not the "crap" jobs that were vital to blue collar Americans survival.

Well, that's an interesting point but USUALLY when I hear complaints of this type, the person IS complaining about loss of "Manufacturing Jobs".

One could spend an entire day just reading the articles on FR which come up when you search for the word "manufacturing".

I'm glad that you, personally, are not as fixated on "Manufacturing Jobs" as so many others seem to be. That's great!

Those jobs were sold down the river last decade. While promises were made they would be replaced by hi tech jobs of the future.

??

I'm getting confused as to exactly which jobs you're talking about exactly. I know from your post that they are "the best jobs", whatever they are, but that they're not "Manufacturing Jobs" (otherwise my post wouldn't have been a STRAW MAN ARGUMENT). But then "those jobs" (the "best" ones, which aren't Manufacturing) were outsourced. And then (someone - who??) "promised" (promised?? there's no "promise" in economics) that "those jobs" (whatever they are..) would be "replaced" by "hi tech jobs of the future".

So "the best jobs", whatever they are/were, weren't "hi tech jobs" OR "Manufacturing Jobs"? What kind of jobs were they?

Telemarketing/telephone call centers?

Meanwhile the trade deficits yawn wider each year. That's what happens when you ship jobs abroad.

Yup those trade deficits keep me up at night. I just hate all the ways they affect my life negatively.