Krauthammer: "Gibson's Blood Libel"

Washington Post ^ | Mar. 5, 04 | Charles Krauthammer

[Sabertooth]

Yes, the Jewish view of proselytizing is poaching. I far prefer it when Christian missionaries try to convert Muslims and tribal heathens in the 3rd world. If American Christians were 3% of the population you would resent poaching too.

That's a slur against our faith, dennis.

I'll remain a friend to Jews, and Israel, in any case.

[MissAmericanPie]

Thank you for your post, it was very informative. However it will be the Christian that faces the coming holocaust during the reign of the approaching global dictator, as the Christian is arrested, vanishes from his neighborhood, and is tried and beheaded for his testimony of Jesus. Following in the footsteps and drinking from the cup of their Lord.

Mr Gibson did a fine job of revealing how the corrupt ban together to push their agendas, against all laws and established decorum.

We see how the corrupt members of the Priesthood met at a time when the full council would not be present, just as we see the senate meet today, using the holidays when most members have left D.C. to meet and push through legislation that would never fly in full session. We have seen how the congress and the senate will attempt to escape accountability via the voice vote.

We saw how these corrupt priests used their bought and paid for mob, as they rousted them out of bed in the middle of the night to condemn Jesus. We need look no farther than Jesse Jackson, the domocrat vote buying and busing to polls scheme, or Union bosses to make the comparison today.

Man never changes, his toys change, he changes his living conditions and standards, but man has not changed from the Garden of Eden. The only thing that changes man is Jesus.

So, no, the Jews need not fear another holocaust, the next one is not for them. However, they do still live under the judgement that God judged them with, that their foot should never rest easy in any land they are scattered to. They will fear the sword that is there, and run from a phantom sword that isn't there except in their own fearful minds.

The coming global government will make Christianity illegal. The Christian will face false charges, being hunted and trapped will find himself before a branch of the global judiciary, much like the one at the Hague. There he will be condmened and sentenced to beheading for his refusal to accept the mark or worship the dictator. The Jews and Israel will already be worshipping him, given they believe he is their long awaited messiah. He will betray them half way through their seven year contract.

Therefore, at times, the fear of those that see boogie men behind every bush, and/or fear conversion of their members, must be ignored in favor of the truth. This is one of those times. Jesus instructed us to "sow while we have the light, because the night is coming when no man can sow".

There is quickly coming a time when Chistians dare not reveal who they are, a time when the lies and delusion are so thick that the strongest light cannot cut through it. So our Jewish brothers will just have to bear with us, our first duty is to the Lord.

[Just mythoughts]

"Yep. Same mindset. Rather transparent they are, though. Agenda-driven, and not Christian in the least"


More "urban legend".....

Care to quote the SCRIPTURE about what makes one "CHRISTIAN"?

I would be happy to quote the Scripture giving the instruction for Christians in case you can't find it.

[Grigeo]

The Gospels tell the whole story and do it in a balanced manner. Because they were God breathed. This movie is twisted.

I Thessalonians 2:14-16

14 For you, brethren, are become followers of the churches of God, which are in Judea, in Christ Jesus: for you also have suffered the same things from your own countrymen, even as they have from the Jews:

15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and the prophets, and have persecuted us, and they please not God, and are adversaries to all men;

16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sin always: for the wrath of God is come upon them to the end.

Witham - The Jews filled up the measure of their iniquities by the opposition they every where manifested to the religion of Christ. The earliest Fathers of the Church testify that they dispersed people into every nation to blaspheme the name of Christ; and hence sprang the evil fame which Christians bore among the pagans. See the apologies of S. Justin, Tertullian, Origen, etc.

[churchillbuff]

I'm starting to understand - - I see how you could think that Christians view Jews today as responsible for Jesus' death, because that's the way you think about things - you believe in mass guilt and inherited guilt, and you hold christianity responsible for the crimes of people in the past who happened to be christians. Sort of your own version of imposing blood guilt on people. A very tribal outlook. Sad.

[Publius6961]

A comment of such stupidity, that the mind reels.

I had to go check the referenced post to assure myself you were not making it up.
I suppose this mensa gaduate will have all us Christians wearing yellow crosses?

Incidentally, does not that statement qualify as incitement to violence? Specifically targetted violence?

[ultima ratio]

"It is not licit for a Catholic to attend an SSPX Mass when another Mass is available"

Since I've posted the Vatican letter from Ecclesia Dei showing otherwise, and have done so countless times, it is clear you intend to lie on these threads deliberately. You are an uncharitable mischief-maker, a real troublemaker. You like to throw bombs and watch the reaction.

[PleaseNoMore]

MAP, that was one of the best posts that I have ever read on FR.

[dennisw]

"I shouldn't blame (in part) a church that named Jews as Christ killers for 15 centuries?"

Now the truth comes out--you are a plain old-fashioned bigot--and ignorant as well. The Catholic Church has always condemned the notion of collective guilt--and the Council of Trent made this explicit long before Vatican II. This has been a perennial doctrine of the Catholic Church. I challenge you to show me where in fifteen centuries the "church" has named Jews as "Christ killers". You can't. It's a lie--a libel, like Krauthammer's.

http://www.levitt.com/essays/bloodlibel.html
Furthermore, it can be said without fear of exaggeration that the devastation imposed and inflicted on the Jewish people by the Church's anti-Jewish reading of Matthew 27:25 has shed oceans of Jewish blood issuing into a ceaseless stream of misery and desolation that horribly culminated in Hitler's Holocaust. In light of this it is extremely important that the true meaning of Matthew 27:25 be obtained so that the Chosen People can be free of the false accusation of "Christ killers" that is constantly imputed to them, resulting in the inevitable persecution and murder of the Jews that follow.

[Just mythoughts]

That Parable of the Sower does have a powerful message. Some might want to go and read it.

[JWinNC]

Wow, it's hard to believe this comes from Krauthammer. I have to concur with Congressman BillyBob in post #15.

JWinNC

[Seeing More Clearly Now]

I don't follow what you are saying. Please explain what "it" is. To which of my statements are you referring?

[Dr._Joseph_Warren]

Satan appears four times. .... Twice, this sinister, hooded, androgynous embodiment of evil is found . . . where? Moving among the crowd of Jews. ...

Silly Gibson. He should have had evil moving among the crowd of Norwegians!!!

[ZULU]

Did Krauthammer frame the title for his editorial?

[Agnes Heep]

... some people - myself included - won't let such bigotry and totalitarianism go unanswered.

There's a vast difference between "the expression of opinion with which you disagree" and "bigotry and totalitarianism." Krauthammer didn't like the movie. He set forth his reasons. In no manner did he suggest that the movie should be suppressed or censored, or that people who liked the movie shouldn't enjoy the freedom of stating their opinion. The rabid nature of the opinions expressed on this forum in reference to this production only affirm the fears of those, especially Jews, who fear it might incite violence.

Another thing I'd observe is that Mel Gibson is playing Christians like a fiddle. They've been sucked into feeding his commercial interests by their hatred for the anti-Christian left, and, perhaps to a lesser extent, by their natural belief in the inevitable damnation of all non-Christians. It's not a very pleasant combination, in my opinion.

[Sabertooth]

I don't engage in groupthink. If an individual is an anti-semite that is his/hers to own and his/hers alone. I certainly wouldn't put you in that category.

I appreciate that. I'd suggest, then, that the "you people" rhetoric is not constructive in this debate, from any quarter.

There is nothing anti-Christian about having problems with this movie. If that was so, there appears to be quite a few anti-Christian Christians out there.

That some may "have problems with the movie" isn't quite the bone of contention.

The problem here is the indiscriminate and cavalier hurling of the charge of anti-Semitism.

Shrug. If one's support for Israel is so paper-thin that a disagreement over a movie, or Biblical interpretation, shakes it, how strong was it in the first place? And plenty of Jews have supported the film, so how will you decide to withdraw your support for Israel -- based upon the opinions of which Jews???

This is precisely contrary to what I'm suggesting.

We've been told that "The Passion of the Christ" will incite anti-Semitism, and pogroms. Where are they?

The point I made is that at this hour in human History, the friendship of Christians to Jews and to Israel is not so tenuous that it can be torn by misunderstandings of this film, or the false charges of anti-Semitism that have sometimes accompanied those misunderstandings.

[PleaseNoMore]

This movie will not minister to the Jews or any nonchristian.

Um, you are wrong. It will. It has.

[dennisw]

I'm starting to understand - - I see how you could think that Christians view Jews today as responsible for Jesus' death, because that's the way you think about things - you believe in mass guilt and inherited guilt, 

For centuries the European Church taught about Jews as Christ killers . Why is this so hard for you to admit? The whole idea of "Christ Killers" was to impute collective guilt upon Jews.

and you hold christianity responsible for the crimes of people in the past who happened to be christians.

Not really but every people has a history

[rbmillerjr]

"so that the Chosen People can be free of the false accusation of "Christ killers" that is constantly imputed to them, resulting in the inevitable persecution and murder of the Jews that follow."

Theologically, Christians believe that Jesus Christ was voluntarily served up to due to man's sinfullness - so that we may all have an opportunity for salvation.

But, Dennis, the historical truth is that Jews handed Christ over to the Romans for the purpose of killing him. Are you denying the historical facts of that reality?

[Just mythoughts]

Furthermore, it can be said without fear of exaggeration that the devastation imposed and inflicted on the Jewish people by the Church's anti-Jewish reading of Matthew 27:25 has shed oceans of Jewish blood issuing into a ceaseless stream of misery and desolation that horribly culminated in Hitler's Holocaust. In light of this it is extremely important that the true meaning of Matthew 27:25 be obtained so that the Chosen People can be free of the false accusation of "Christ killers" that is constantly imputed to them, resulting in the inevitable persecution and murder of the Jews that follow."

Matthew 27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, "I am innocent of the blood of this just Person: see ye to it.

V25 Then answered all the People, and said,
"His blood be on us, and on our children."

I don't get it. Your very own words try and put on Christians what non-Christians did in the past history.

For what purpose?