Safety board wants airline passengers weighed

CNN ^ | 2/27/04

[armyboy]

She won't be served alcohol either as she brings her own licker on board. Wonder if they take their "toys" along for the ride too????
Thanks for the disturbing mental image /sarcasm off

[nightdriver]

"First, the airline's guidelines for estimating the weight of passengers and baggage were inaccurate. The pilots, therefore, didn't realize the plane's rear section was too heavy.

"Second, mechanics had improperly rigged cables connected to the elevator, the tail flap that controls the up-and-down direction of the aircraft's nose."

These are both "pilot errors" in my estimation. I have been asked to change seats on a small feeder airliner for weight and balance considerations and what pilot doesn't check his control surfaces for proper movement and travel before every flight, especially after it has been re-rigged?

[ArrogantBustard]

everything but the crates of live chickens carried aboard.

I flew out of Boston last year in the company of an oriental fellow and his crate of live lobsters.

[Thud]

Guess Your Weight!

They should announce it over loudspeakers too.

[Geritol]

the carry on luggage is not weighed

[Enterprise]

Mel Gibson got an elephant in a plane in Dumbo Drop, so I think a plane which can haul her fatass can be found too! They just won't be able to land though, they will have to drop her out with cargo 'chutes.

[PBRSTREETGANG]

I've been on many small aircraft where they asked us our weights and positioned the passengers accordingly.

[finnman69]

"Paging passenger Williams to the Jenny Craig counter."

[Arrowhead1952]

They just won't be able to land though, they will have to drop her out with cargo 'chutes.

If they have to do this to all the HUGE Hollywierds like her and Pig Nose M. Moore, just think of all the extra jobs this will create.... Good for the economy....

[finnman69]

I love the idea of pay by the pound. Except you have to provide toliets at the check in area so people can relieve themselves to 'lighten up' before the weigh in. Models will be able to purge themselves.

[Arrowhead1952]

Thanks for the disturbing mental image /sarcasm off

Think of the size of the ________________. Better not post that. Don't want to be banned.....

[null and void]

Or mount strain gauges on the landing gear. Same net effect.

[namsman]

Seems like a good suggestion on the face of it, but in practice, it's difficult to impossible to weigh a large aircraft on the ramp. I won't go into everything, but I'll offer one example: If the wind is blowing, it will create lift, reducing the weight indicated on the scales. That's why airplanes are weighed in hangers for the most part.

What is a good idea is the requirement for more frequent weighing to keep the standard allowances current. Consider the effect of an average 10 lb/passenger unknown error on a fully loaded 747: Fuel burn will be well over 1/2% higher than planned. They have to do it correctly though. The only way to keep passengers from hiding their carry-on items is to do the weighing in the jetway, at the airplane door. Once you reach that point, you have everything with you.

I'd personally advocate a large, easy to read LCD display on the scale so that the operator can quickly see and record the number. Plus it will very entertaining to the other passengers.

Namsman sends.

[RatSlayer]

"These are both "pilot errors" in my estimation. I have been asked to change seats on a small feeder airliner for weight and balance considerations and what pilot doesn't check his control surfaces for proper movement and travel before every flight, especially after it has been re-rigged?"

Absolutely. This article also fails to mention that the ground crew warned the pilot about the weight situation.

If they really want good weight data they don't need to weigh individual passengers, all they have to do is collect the data from the large commercial jets which all have load sensors in their landing gear and do the statistics.

[Wright is right!]

"Electronic scales (heavy duty ones) are really pretty inexpensive today (especially compared to airplanes and lawsuits). A better solution would be to require commercial carriers to have scale pads under the landing gear at the gate. That way, the pilot and crew could know that the plane isn't overloaded, and that the weight distribution is within acceptable parameters."

I've got an even better idea. Have the aircraft manufacturers install sensors on the landing gear that would measure the gear's deflection from empty and dry. The more weight in the aircraft, the greater the gear deflection. Simply matter to have this show up on three LED bar graphs in the cockpit.

This same method is used daily in maritime, where ships routinely have various loading lines painted on their hulls. Where the water line is tells you how much "stuff" is on the ship.

Michael

[Political Junkie Too]

But that's not intrusive enough! This is the FEDERAL government we're talking about.

-PJ

[Political Junkie Too]

with everything but the crates of live chickens carried aboard.

I carry my dog on board.

-PJ

[cc2k]

null and void wrote:

---

Or mount strain gauges on the landing gear. Same net effect.

---

Same result. Putting the strain guages into new aircraft designs would be easy. Retrofitting to existing aircraft might be more difficult. Also, most airlines have far fewer gates than aircraft, so the cost would probably be less to put the scales on the ground at the gates.

The important thing is to be able to calculate the total weight of the aircraft and the location of the CG based on the weight distribution. Either option would provide a very precise CG location on the longitudinal and lateral axes. Getting CG height would be much more difficult, but isn't really as critical for most aircraft.

[hattend]

Or mount strain gauges on the landing gear. Same net effect.

I'm not that familiar with the cockpit of a 1900 but I ride in one twice a month on the average. There may already be something like that on the plane. I have been in my seat, buckled in with the front door shut and just before engine start up, the co-pilot gets out of their seat and tell some of the people in the back that they need to move forward or the heavier people in the back need to trade with lighter people.

[nightdriver]

"...all they have to do is collect the data from the large commercial jets which all have load sensors in their landing gear and do the statistics."

Years ago, when I worked on the 747 project at Boeing, we put instrumentation on the landing gear to give the pilot gross weight and CG location. But that's sorta expensive.

I rather like the suggestion of load cells placed in the footprint of the plane somewhere in the apron at the airport. That way, the entire plane can be weighed at each gear position and provide near perfect weight and balance data to the pilot every time.