Scholars: Crucifixion Portrayal Inaccurate

AP News ^ | Feb 19th,2004 | PETER ENAV

[man of Yosemite]

Do none of these scholars hear the words of Paul, whose writings are probably the earliest Christian source for what the church believed? Colossians 2:14 says,"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" which clearly speaks of Jesus being nailed to the cross.

[realpatriot71]

"There is no evidence whatsoever he was nailed," he said. "The Gospels say he was crucified and leave it at that."

Thomas felt the scars of our Lord, and it is quite plainly described in the Gospel of John, as well as this the Gospels specifically state that Jesus showed his "hands and feet" to the disciples when He appears - documented in all the Gospels.

He said experiments on cadavers carried out by the Catholic Church in the Middle Ages have shown that people hanging with nails through their hands will fall to the ground within a relatively short time, pulled by gravity.

Wrong. Driving a nail through the palmer surface of the hand between the Scaphoid and Lunate bones would give plenty of support (also misses any major arteries), plus the arms of the condemned could have also been easily tied to the cross.

[Marysecretary]

IMHO, these so-called scholars just plain don't believe the Bible is true. They smorgasbord what they want and discount the rest. The Bible might be 10 pages long when they get through with it. Fools.

[robowombat]

Here is some information on Dr. Barbet's book:A DOCTOR AT CALVARY

Pierre Barbet, M.D. This is the famous writing of the passion as described by a surgeon, based on the knowledge of the Shroud of Turin. "We did not know, nobody has ever told us that!" These were the words, spoken in tears, by Pope Pius XII on reading passages on this moving study of the Crucifixion. One of the most complete studies ever undertaken on the causes of the terrible agony and death of Christ. After reading this stirring and powerful book, you will be on your knees as you have never been before. Written with devotion and compassion. 192pp. Hardbound. Imprimi Potest.

[r9etb]

Only if you consider the inaccurate depiction of the nails going thru the hand. The greek word for 'hand' includes the wrist where the bones would be able to hold without tearing.

And, indeed, they've found a few examples of crucifixion victims who showed evidence of having been hung by nails through the wrists.

[r9etb]

This cycle would continue for days until the victim was too exhausted to continue, then they would succum to asphyxiation.

Which is why they broke the thieves' legs -- to make them die sooner.

[FlatLandBeer]

Critics od Christianity must find ways to discredit it. So they nick pick at these type of items. Yet the Gospels talk of Nails and the wounds. With out the wounds and blood there is no "cleansing" of our sins. Therefore if doubt about the wounds is planted in someones mind the doubt about salvation can take root.

[Remole]

water issuing from the side = pericardial fluid built up from trauma and struggle to breathe.

[Verginius Rufus]

John 20.25 uses the Greek word for nail.

The Greek word used in Acts 2.23 means "to affix to the cross" or "to crucify" but doesn't show whether a nail is involved. On the other hand, the verb used in Colossians 2.14 (proselosas) does mean "to nail to," implying the presence of a nail (helos).

[FrankR]

"Scholars: Crucifixion Portrayal Inaccurate"

Ok...all of you "scholars" who were there...please stand up.

[Ann Archy]

The Bible IS the TRUTH and DOES tell the story. Show US where it DOES NOT!!!

[Uncle Jaque]

About 26 years ago, soon after I read the Book of Isaiah (particularly the 53rd) I had a very strange, moving experience.

It was like an extremely vivid, detailed "dream"... but it kept on running in my consiousness after I woke up, and went on for about a week.
It was all I could do to focus on my work or daily activities; as soon as I let my mind come up to breathe, there it was, as if on a translucent screen suspended in front of my face... and it was so fascinating!

My Doctor said it was a "Hypnogognic Phenomenon"; My Pastor suggested that I had too much pepperonni on my pizza, and my Wife seriously considered having me committed to an insane asylum.

So I shut up about it.

Some years later, a Charismatic Christian considered this experience to have been my "Baptism of the Holy Spirit", but they still wondered about me because I didn't "Speak in Tounges" - at least not publicly.

So I kept shut up.

I'll spare you the weirdness, but it essentially involved a sort of "memory" that burst into my senses involving a younger Member of Y'shuah's Family before, I suppose, his public ministry. I think they called him "Yuda", or "Yude" for short. His elder Brother liked to nickname people, and we were his first recipients, I guess.

There were other insights as well - particularly of that incident involving "Doubting Thomas" several of you have already mentioned. To say that was "powerful" would be an absurd understatement.

I remember how smokey the room was, and how his eyes burned as he slumped over the table. The light was remarkable; the guttering of the clay lamps and firepot made a fluttering, surreal dance of shadows on the walls and faces of the berieved... Were his eyes burning from the smoke, or from a crushed and defeated heart... ashamed of having fallen for it all; for having failed Him in the end?

What would he tell his Family?

How could he have been such a fool?

And to think; how he had Loved Him - the very one who had so cleverly decieved him for those three whole years - so terribly much.

The light was blurred from the tears, and the heavy, acrid smoke; even the muffled hubbub of conversation and the soft clatter of utensils seemed somehow to meld into an auditory blur.

Then a hush suddenly cut through the dark and cloistered room like the cold thrust of a Soldier's gladius; The ruddy and tremblinging ambient light seemed to take on a strange, steady, calm, liquid, bluish cast...

He would have looked up, if he had cared any more....

I think I'd better shut up now.... again.

Suffice it to say, while I was watching a "preview" of Passion on FOX News a couple of evenings ago which showed some of the Via DeLaRosa and Crucifiction scenes, I kept (much to my Wife's annoyance) saying things like;

"Good night!; in the best of health he would have a hard time toting that thing! That cross has to weigh about 245 pounds all together, even if it was dry!
The crossbeam alone would have gone a good 75 or 80!
After that flogging he'd be doing well just to DRAG that!"

(Wife glares at the TV and pretends not to notice)

"Holy mackerel!; What ARE those Legionarries packing - those are bloomin' BROADSWORDS! The standard issue Gladius was a lot shorter than that!; They could never have whipped those things out of the scabbard under their right arm or brought it out in a flash of cold steel into a high cubit block like they used to do!"

(As the "hand" - alledgedly that of Mr. G. himself - places the nail in the center of the Actor's palm):

"They didn't drive the nail THERE!!! - it went between the distal heads of the radius and ulna, so that they'd bear the load! I saw the scars, for Godssakes..."

Oops..

Shutting up again.

You can put that butterfly net away now; I'll be OK.

Really.

[Modernman]

The Bible IS the TRUTH and DOES tell the story. Show US where it DOES NOT!!!

Circular argument. Believing the Bible is a matter of faith. However, if you want to prove, without resorting to faith, that the events in the Bible occurred the way the Bible claims they did, you need to be able to provide independent, historical proof.

To prove that something in a book, any book, is true, you can't simply rely on the fact that the book says so.

[Happy2BMe]

Well, you're certainly correct on the swords and on the location of the nails.

So just sit down and shut up (again).

Just kidding! Tell us more (when it comes to you - if IT does).

:~)

[Happy2BMe]

Fascinating - but I was always led to believe the nails were driven into the area in the center of the wrist, so as to keep them from tearing through the flesh under the weight of the body.

[billbears]

God. The Word is inspired by the Holy Spirit.

[billbears]

Inspired by God, yes. Told by God, no

When it comes to the Bible it's the same thing. The Word is inerrant. If it says it happened, it happened