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False accusation leads to tragedy (A question for the forum)
Kansas City Star ^
| 2/15/04
| Timothy Dwyer
Posted on 02/15/2004 6:46:32 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: skip2myloo
The kid told the principal that this teacher had "punched" him, the teacher admitted to having shoved him.
The kid did not do anything beyond telling another teacher and the principal, the police became involved when an officer overheard a conversation about the incident.
What's at fault here is the system. And there's a whole lot wrong with the teacher himself.
The kids parents would have dropped the charges and ordered their son to apologize to Mayfield.
What's wrong here is the mentality that you promote, of thinking that the solution lies with the authorities.
In my day, the principal would have called the parents in, discussed the issue with them. The parents would have made the student apologize to the teacher, and backed whatever punishment the school set with some of their own.
This is what these immigrants argued they would have done...perhaps, we need to let these immigrants reminds us of what the true relation between parents, teachers, and students should be.
181
posted on
02/15/2004 1:35:01 PM PST
by
Luis Gonzalez
(The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
To: cubreporter
Oh please!
The kid turned a shove into a punch.
The teacher widowed his wife and orphaned his son because his reputation as a teacher was more important than they are?
The kid did something kids do all the time, the teacher reacted like no adult I know.
182
posted on
02/15/2004 1:38:06 PM PST
by
Luis Gonzalez
(The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
To: HairOfTheDog
The article said assault. That can mean many things. Perhaps the man just could not take the burden of others thinking he could be capable of something like that. To some, to be falsely accused of something when they know they are innocent is more than they can bear. Perhaps the teacher was in this category.
183
posted on
02/15/2004 1:45:52 PM PST
by
cubreporter
(I trust Rush...he will prevail in spite of the naysayers)
To: Non-Sequitur
Since this student's false accusation directly led to the death of Ron Mayfield then shouldn't the student be charged with manslaughter? Absolutely.
To: cubreporter
I applaud your optimism, and given, his physical situation, he may be different. But, many of the young toughs in our public school system do not have a conscience and live for the thrill of violence and running with a gang. They are as alien in their thought processes to you and I as a creature from Mars.
185
posted on
02/15/2004 1:51:53 PM PST
by
Truth29
To: steplock
I would venture to say that a person does NOT commit suicide unless he has
one HELL of a guilty concience.
Maybe.
I think it can also be fear of enduring upcoming suffering, merited or not.
My undersatanding is that a German inventor, pressured by some family real-estate
investments that had soured through himself into the sea and was lost.
Too bad...soon the patents came through on his variant of an internal combustion engine.
Thus, poor Diesel wasn't around when the family had so much money that they didn't
know how to spend it all.
I hope I haven't reported an urban myth, but that's the story I've heard before.
186
posted on
02/15/2004 1:58:08 PM PST
by
VOA
To: Truth29
Well, it's not really optimism. It's human nature I like to believe. If he is as you say that will last for a little while but at night, alone in the dark when all else is quiet...conscience knocks at the door and it's not a door you want to open cause that visitor never leaves. He is always there. But...that is not yours nor my problem thank God.
187
posted on
02/15/2004 2:14:57 PM PST
by
cubreporter
(I trust Rush...he will prevail in spite of the naysayers)
To: Luis Gonzalez
kids punch teachers all the time? They do? Where I wonder? You were not in the mind of the teacher. You don't know.
188
posted on
02/15/2004 2:18:48 PM PST
by
cubreporter
(I trust Rush...he will prevail in spite of the naysayers)
To: Luis Gonzalez
Mira Luis, tú eres el que quiere promover una forma de pensar.
¿Tienes un hueso en particular que roer?
Para tí el sistema y el professor son los cupables y el niño es la víctima.
¿Si no quieres castigar al niño, porque no lo dices?
Look Luis, youre the one that wants to promote a mentality.
Do you have a personal bone to pick?
To you, the system and the teacher are at fault and the kid is the victim.
You dont want to punish the kid why dont you just admit it?
To: Rhys Ifans
Now, do you have any examples to make your point, i.e., that merely being accused has done irreparable harm to an innocent person? Yes. Jerry Gibbons of OKC back in 1965 or 66. I was about 16 or 17 at the time I knew him and he was, maybe, 23 or 24. He was falsely accused of Rape by a mentally ill baby sitter. Made the front page of the paper and all that sort of stuff. His wife divorced him costing him his family. He was fired from work. He couldn't find another job because of the accusation. He spend significant time in jail trying to get friends to post bail for him (his wife certainly wouldn't) which was probably a factor in losing his job. He couldn't get another job because he was a "rapist" and no one wanted him around. Of course, the charges were dropped and it became known that the babysitter had pulled this stunt before in another city. Didn't make much difference for Jerry though. He still had no wife, was forbidden to see even his baby under the divorce decree, had no job, couldn't find a new job since he was branded a 'rapist', and had a police record of being arrested for rape. He lost everything he had. Fortunately he was in his early twenties and could start over, but he had to leave town and go to where no one knew him to do it. I don't know how long the stigma affected him, I never saw or heard from him again after he left town.
I'm sure he was one of the people who "got what they deserved" in your opinion. And I'm sure everyone here will be familiar with this case right? See why I stick to examples that everyone is familiar with?
190
posted on
02/15/2004 3:39:48 PM PST
by
templar
To: cubreporter
"kids punch teachers all the time?"No wonder you;re still a cub reporter.
191
posted on
02/15/2004 3:48:26 PM PST
by
Luis Gonzalez
(The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
To: Non-Sequitur
No... but I believe there should be some laws on the books to punish for a false accusation, especially when it leaves harm in its wake. The man's death was his decision... let's not open that can of worms where I get blamed for something you volitionally decide to do.
To: Harmless Teddy Bear
Agree completely.
The words inscribed on the Statue of Liberty say something to the effect, 'Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free.'
As for me, the welcome mat is out for all who choose to come legally.
To: skip2myloo
The only "mentality" being promoted here is by you.
You "know" that the kid is an illegal alien...no proof to that effect, you just "know" it.
You think that the kid should be deported for exaggerating what happened. You don't know exactly what happened, but since the kid is an immigrant A) he's guilty, and B) I am defending him.
Mayfield's family is faulting the system and not placing blame on the student, I guess they don't want to prosecute the kid either.
Mayfield, by his own admission, shoved the kid and of course, since you've designated "victim status" to him, his word is Gospel and he is not toning the incident down in self-defense.
The kid said that Mayfield punched him. Imagine that! A thirteen year-old kid, after being "shoved" by a teacher may have exaggerated the incident a bit...or did he?
Can an adult shove feel like a punch to a frail (the kid is wheelchair bound) thirteen year-old?
You bet it can!
Should a teacher be allowed to shove his students...wheelchair bound or not?
I don't think so.
The kid told the principal, the principal told the School Board, Child Protective Services got called in, the police got involved.
If the principal had gotten the parents involved, the kid would have learned a lesson, and the teacher would be alive today.
There was something very wrong with this teacher that he would end his life over something like this, but since the kid is an immigramt, you want to paint him as evil.
I don't care if you're prejudiced against immigrants, but at least be honest enough to admit to it.
194
posted on
02/15/2004 4:32:41 PM PST
by
Luis Gonzalez
(The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
To: Godfollow
But there was no false accusation.
Mayfield admitted to shoving the kid.
The kid said Mayfield punched him.
What may have seemed like a shove to the teacher, may have felt like a punch to the student.
I can prove that.
You step up to me, and I'll shove you with my two fingers (as Mayfield admitted to doing), and I can guarantee that you will call it a punch.
195
posted on
02/15/2004 4:38:07 PM PST
by
Luis Gonzalez
(The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
To: NRA2BFree
"This is a heart breaking tragedy and they need to make an example out of this kid to let students know that there are consequences for their actions." Not even Mayfield's family is placing blame on the kid.
The teacher admitted to shoving this wheelchair bound kid, the kid called it a punch.
The ONLY thing the kid is guilty of is saying that he was punched instead of shoved.
He's guilty of what exactly?
196
posted on
02/15/2004 4:41:14 PM PST
by
Luis Gonzalez
(The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
To: cubreporter
The accusation was not absolutely anything. It was the accusation of a young student, a confused student, in an age where -- as many have pointed out -- disrespect to teachers and lies are common.
The so-called teacher's action was however, irrevocable and absolute. Words *do* have meaning, you should know. "Absolute" means absolute, and not a third-grader's "Yeah and you too!" taunt, which is all you seem to have made of it.
Suicide is an absolute action. No matter how actuallized, it is no less, no more, and is un-undoable, incapable of ever being corrected or lessened.
197
posted on
02/15/2004 4:59:19 PM PST
by
bvw
To: steplock
It takes a truly stupid person to say he has seen it all.
At least you made some sense. Once a person goes beyond season they don't think clearly.
BTW,what is the purpose of the capital letters? Do you imagine it supports your argument. Reason would be better suited to the task.
It has been my experience that a person as cock sure as you, are among the first to pull their own pin.
198
posted on
02/15/2004 5:20:13 PM PST
by
em2vn
To: Luis Gonzalez
Well, from what I read, it sounded like a false accusation and I thought that was what the post was asking about... false accusations. As to what happened in this particular case I have no knowledge.
To: Luis Gonzalez
Are you sitting down ?? Your scenario is actually somewhat logical - a relatively simple confrontation that was escalated out of proportion.
However, all we know is what we read in the articles that were provided.
The articles headlines proclaimed the kid made a "False Accusation."
Mark Twain cautioned us to believe only about half of what we read -- maybe so.
But, if the kid truly made a false accusation he ought to be held accountable, fully in accordance with the law.
Still, I believe you're interpreting the case in a way that is comfortable to you.
For example, you challenged me when I said the kid was a chronic menace, despite the article that clearly substantiated he was.
When I cited the specific language, you ignored the matter in subsequent posts.
I agree with you, based on the articles, the Mayfield family seems more interested in pursuing the "system" than the kid. But, the "system" has deeper pockets - what's the point of going after the kid. Simple justice is not always so simple, or cheap.
And you're right, the family's alien status is really not relevant to this particular case.
However, again, based only on the headline and the articles stating the kid made a "False Accusation," deportation would be a simpler solution for "justice," whatever that is.
While the family's alien status may not be relevant to this particular case, it is relevant to me in a broader sense. I am viscerally opposed to the presence of illegal aliens in this country. I think they all should be deported, and our borders should be protected from further violations.
But, I'll grant you, we can save that for another debate.
I'll add this, I live in Virginia, irrespective of this kid's disability or alien status, I don't want a chronically disruptive child in the same classroom with my own children.
That's why my kids attend private school; primarily to enforce zero tolerance of delinquent, disruptive behavior and secondarily to assure a curriculum as free of PC garbage as possible.
Because he has an apparently well-documented history of misbehavior for the 27 months he has been in the Roanoke school system - he would not be permitted to attend my daughters' schools. And, that is as it should be.
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