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Thank you very much for your thoughts (that goes for everyone here, by the way).

I agree completely with you that it's definitely better to be poor here than to be poor in many other countries. There's no doubt about it, even poor people here have a very high quality of life relative to someof the world's poorest countries. I guess my stumbling block is that we aren't one of the poorer countries on earth, we are indisputably the richest. And here's the rub, there are many countries, all of whom are poorer than we are, in which the quality of life for the average earner, is higher.

Take myself for instance. I'm fairly bright, I've worked hard, gotten good grades, stayed away from addictive substances, never had any trouble with the law, in other words, I've played by the rules. I've also lost my job, have no health insurance, and am having to borrow $20,000/year to make my tuition payments. Now, if I were living in Europe, not only would I not be paying tuition, I would actually be receiving a modest stipend to cover my living costs while I was in school. In addition, I'd be covered by a public health plan, which admittedly would probably not provide quite as good a coverage as the private insurance I could opt for if I wanted to spend the extra money on it, but at least I would have something, which, compared to the nothing I have right now in our wealthy US, sounds kind of like a step up to me.

I don't know, I hear what you're saying and partially agree with you, but I'm not sure it's fair to compare the quality of life in the US to that which prevails in the worldest poorest countries. Of course life in the US is better than life in Afghanistan, that's not saying anything, they're two totally different countries. The question in my mind is how do we compare with other similarly prosperous countries? That is to say, let's compare apples and apples, not apples and oranges.

As for appreciating the value of money, I can't help but feel that, if anything, the working poor in this country who often have to work multiple jobs just in order to make ends meet, would be more appreciative of the value of an earned dollar than some billionaire who rakes in millions simply by clicking a button and selling a bunch of stocks.

People, in Canada and England, for instance, who have " free " ( who do you think is paying for it anyway ? NO GOVERNMENT " MAKES MONEY ", THEY TAX THOSE WHO MAKE IT ! )/Socialized medical plans, hate them. People DIE waiting to see a doctor, get worse treatment than those here with NO insurance. Those with enough money ( Canadians ) go to America for treatment, or pay for it ( in England) out of their own funds.

Who are YOU to decide who is more appreciative of the money they make and on what do you base this feckless assumption? Do you want the pay scale based on who appreciates what monies they get, or on their performance and value to the company they work for? What about entrepreneurs, who work for themselves? What about those with minimal skills, who are needed, but don't add all that much, but who would " APPRECIATE " the money " more "?

It sounds as though you want a FREE RIDE, at everyone else's expense and think that others should have one too. WHO DO YOU THINK IS PAYING FOR THAT " FREE RIDE ?

You lost your job and are unwilling to pay for your own health insurance. Not all that long ago,everyone had to pay their own way. It wasn't until just after WW II that the Unions demanded " free health insurance ", from companies. Do you realize that that caused employers to pay less in wages and give the cheapest possible health insurance to their employees; not to mention raising the cost of health insurance on those people who have to buy their own, as well as raising the medical costs fore everyone ?

Life in America is better for the poorest of the poor on up, than it is in ANYOTHER NATION! Don't use Afghanistan.Use France and Germany and Sweden and Canada.

You say that you're probably more left than all of here are. Yes, I think that you are. So WHAT are your Conservative positions? This is, after all a CONSERVATIVES forum and you have yet to say anything that sounds even remotely Conservative.

Hi PSS,

I get really confused about the un-insured issue in this country. I know of a man, who was homeless, and got injured. He was rushed to our local county hospital, which is considered one of the best trauma hospitals in the state, and was treated for his injuries and after a stay in the hospital was released. Now my confusion comes when I am told this man has no insurance, yet he was treated and cured at a local hospital. How can that be? Do you believe he carries health insurance, but lives in a box? I see my taxes pay for this hospital, and yet I pay insurance for myself and all of my employees. So am I not paying for this man's health insurance too?

As far as the wealth issue, I own my own business. In order to secure funding for equipment for my company, I have to sign over everything to the bank. This includes my house, my cars, everything. So I take a heavy financial chance everytime I try to grow my company. Now, I came from very modest means, the youngest of 14 kids and I paid my way through night school to get a degree...took a long time. I pay my "fair share" and probably a lot more. Can you understand where I and most other hard working conservatives are coming from? And do you know the amounts given to all charitable organizations each year? You do know this money does not come from the 50% who do not pay any taxes. If you researched this number, you would probably find the majority of it comes from the 2% who pay 80% of the taxes already. And speaking for myself, it is not for the tax relief.

Hopefully you can understand another side.

I've also lost my job, have no health insurance, and am having to borrow $20,000/year to make my tuition payments.

Previously, you mentioned that you are a poli sci grad student. My question is this: Why on earth are you going into so much debt? How much do you expect to earn? Do you know how many ridiculous people I've seen, going into huge amounts of debt for a degree which will do little to increase their earnings, who then cry and whine about how unfair!! life is?

Who else should be paying for YOUR education and YOUR health insurance, but you? Should I be responsible for it? I have two children to feed, clothe, house and pay medical bills for. You chose to go back to school. I'm sure you knew how much it would cost. I LOVE freedom of choice. Just don't make ME pay for your choices.

First let me congratulate you on starting this dialogue. I wish there was more of this between conservatives and liberals, rather than just name calling, because it would lead to discussing the fundamental issues and preconceptions that divide us.

For example, you look at the wealth distribution of this country and you cringe. It doesn't fit your world view of how the wealth in a just society should be distributed. This is because we have been taught that just means equal. Implied in your question is the premise that equality is a noble pursuit, (while, ironically and simultaneously you also pursue diversity - but, that's another topic). I couldn't disagree more. I cannot imagine a more miserable place to live than a society where equality reigned supreme. Societies that have only gone part way to achieving equality, such as Cuba, the soviet union, north korea, china during the cultural revolution, are edens compared to the hell, cohersion, misery and lifelessness that would exist in a truly equal society.

How can that be? you might ask. The most unfortunate phrase in the declaration of independence, an otherwise brilliant document, is the one that claims everyone is created equal.

How something so manifestly wrong can end up as a credo for a whole civilization is beyond me. We are not equal (thank god)!!! We look different we have different talents and intelligence, different likes and dislikes, different needs, so why are we surprised by the fact that we have different outcomes.

Note that the statement in the declaration is not a recommendation, i.e. create a system where everybody is equal. It is, rather, an assertion of fact. The statistics you quote obviously prove that assertion false. If everybody is created equal and always has been, then, you would expect the results to be pretty equal - after all we're all playing in this field called earth.

So what's happened is that the obviously wrong assertion has been turned into a recommendation. If we're not all equal, then let's do whatever we can to force people to be equal. The first consequence of this action is loss of freedom, because, to keep joe from getting ahead of mike you need to use some involuntary means to hold joe back.

An immediate consequence of this loss of freedom is the inability to pursue your happiness - the more your choices are limited, the less opportunity you have to follow your dream.

The third consequence is poverty - equal poverty. Why this is so should be obvious. It's impossible to turn a homeless guy into a bill gates, but with sufficient theft and shackles , transforming bill into a depressed, homeless, bum is doable. So if you want equality you got to do what's feasible, which is make the rich poor.

The fourth consequence of equality is societal failure. A society based on equality will eventually be overrun by one based on reality - i.e, people are not equal - vive la difference! Communism vs capitalism is a perfect real life example. Theoretically it is an obvious outcome of the third consequence above. Societies based on equality will end up poor and unable to defend themselves.

There's a lot more I could say on the topic, but this is already too long. I just want to close by pointing out that the european example you gave is only a partial and temporary picture and it only looks good from afar. Europe is quickly heading toward poverty, exactly because of their strong egalitarian bent. They may already be beyond rescue in the short term. Germany, France, Italy are all scrambling to pull themselves from the brink by passing (trying to) laws that will significantly reduce the welfare (theft) state. Of course they're getting tremendous resistance from the "poor" people. It'll be interesting to see whether the poor succeed in making themselves even poorer.

Maybe next time we can talk about another liberal misconception - the fiction that economics is a zero sum game. That the bill gates of the world have taken a huge chunk from the common pool, rather than the reality, which is that he has created wealth and filled the pool with contributions. What he has kept for himself he created - he didn't steal it from anyone. In fact the gates, ellisons and jobs of the world have created more billionaires, millionaires, and just plain well-off people than the government has ever done in its role as robbin' hood.

Boy, I sure went on - I couldn't resist a "teaching moment", though.