Ann Coulter: Cleland drops a political grenade

Universal Press Syndicate ^ | February 12, 2004 | Ann Coulter

[an amused spectator]

There is a difference between being a partisan and a blind partisan. I am a partisan, but see no value in looking the other way when somone like coulter (who I like) behaves just like cleland (who I despise as a person, but whose service to this country I can admire.)

Coulter isn't behaving like Cleland. She's not tooting her own horn to belittle others. She's playing Cleland on his own field.

I'll cut you some slack, because you probably haven't played in The Show, and don't know what the rules are. Coulter and Cleland both know what the rules for political hardball are. Don't cry for Max.

Blind partisan - **snicker**. You have NO idea the things I've seen in the years I've been on here.

[optimistically_conservative]

Not wrong. As CO you are responsible for your men.

Twitching your grenade for a hair-trigger pull is just plain stupid. Perhaps if Cleland had paid closer attention to his men in training or done a proper gear check on the helo, he wouldn't be an amputee now.

That's fair, and since he was a CPT at the time we can run that blame game all the way down the chain of command to the enlisted guy in charge of the rookie. Seems petty, but what the hey.

So, how 'bout those 101st guys that got fragged in Iraq before the war. Think we can come up with ways to criticize the officers and enlisted there too?

Know what? i don't even beleive Cleland's account to begin with. He probably tried to frag himself to get home sooner.

Yeah, I'm sure he didn't want to serve out that last month before his rotation stateside.

See, Ann's column has got the idiots out in force today.

[Truth Table]

You can cut whatever you'd like. Points have merit or they do not. Again, pretty simple to my way of thinking.

Coulter is doing exactly what Cleland did, so her motive is not relevant. So they are both playing on the same field. I understood that. My point is simply this: Thinking folks do not belong on that field.

Your last point does not refute my observation, but that is okay. I do not cry for Cleland. The man is slime.

...His service or wounds he suffered while in service are not.

[an amused spectator]

Second, he was not on a chopper beer run.

Note to o.c. - a beer run is where you go get beer, then come back to where you were in the first place. SkyPilot didn't say anything about a "chopper beer run" - that's YOUR spin. SP said that Cleland said that he was going to have a beer with his friends.

But perhaps you could remind where the Vietnam "front" at Khe Sanh?

I believe that the poor bastards had the Jarheads surrounded.

[an amused spectator]

See, Ann's column has got the idiots out in force today.

Yeah, I noticed that. When were you leaving this thread, anyway? ;-)

[optimistically_conservative]

Yeah, I noticed that. When were you leaving this thread, anyway? ;-)

I promise to check in periodically as long as you're posting.

The way I see it, Cleland, in attacking Bush with this ridiculous AWOL charge has put himself on the same level with those that ridiculed him for blowing himself up in Vietnam - in the gutter.

That's where Ann is. That's where he is. That's where you are.

So, my apologies if I prevented you from taking this thread there too.

[88keys]

I don't think Moore helps the Democrats win elections or issues. He is a caricature. I don't think this column helps us and reinforces the caricature of Coulter.

I know what you mean...Ann Coulter is pretty "edgy" with her commentary, and sometimes she's a little too smart and shrewd in her writing for my taste, but she is already a favorite "target" of the liberals, she would be much easier to "discredit" if she were simply a "caricature" like Moore is (Coulter's a PHD, right?) and IMHO, since she's a columnist and not an elected official, I'm glad she speaks out about the truth, even if her opinions might be a little too strongly (or cuttingly) expressed at times...she's controversial, but she's not a "spokesman" for anyone but herself, although the lib.'s would have you believe otherwise (kinda like Rush)...

[optimistically_conservative]

Note to o.c. - a beer run is where you go get beer, then come back to where you were in the first place.

LOL, fair enough. It ended up a roundtrip ride in two different copters, without the beer, lots of bang, and therefore does not qualify as a "beer run".

SkyPilot didn't say anything about a "chopper beer run" - that's YOUR spin. SP said that Cleland said that he was going to have a beer with his friends.

OK, get SP here so he can source his quote and we can try to determine where the beer was on the hilltop at Khe Sanh.

[RonDog]

From www.josephsoninstitute.org/poc/cleland.htm:

The following are two of 41 essays from “The Power of Character” (Jossey-Bass, 1998), edited by the Josephson Institute’s Wes Hanson and Michael Josephson.

Strong at the Broken Places
By Senator Max Cleland

---

SENATOR MAX CLELAND is a Democrat from the state of Georgia. He went from being named outstanding senior in high school to Emory University to Vietnam, where he lost three limbs but not his purpose. Recipient of the Bronze Star for Meritorious Service and the Silver Star for Gallantry in Action, Cleland returned to Georgia, where he was elected to the state senate at the age of twenty-eight (that body's youngest member) and wrote the law making public facilities accessible to the handicapped. Later he became the first Vietnam veteran, and the youngest person ever, to head the Veteran's Administration, and then Georgia's youngest-ever secretary of state. In 1996, he was elected to the U.S. Senate. “He is an authentic American hero,” columnist David Broder has written, “an inspiration to people everywhere; a living, breathing testament to the power of the human spirit.”

---

The historian Plutarch termed it a “longstanding habit.” Another ancient philosopher called it “perfectly educated will.” And Goethe said it means simply, “In great and little things, carrying through what you feel able to do.”

They’re talking about “character,” one of the great preoccupations of sages and educators — and all those concerned with the real quality of life. However it’s described, character is an essential building block in each youngster’s growth to become a responsible, moral adult. I believe it is critical to bring to the attention of our youth the importance of character building and the teachings of morality and citizenship.

One develops “character” by overcoming obstacles and temptations. The temptations can be as mundane as choosing laziness over diligence. The obstacles can be profound — something I know quite a bit about myself. After I was wounded in Vietnam and lost three of my limbs, recovery proved a difficult time for me. How could I face coming back home after what had happened to me? In time, I would see the wisdom of Ralph Waldo Emerson, who said, “What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.”

 

Vietnam

I left my hometown of Lithonia, Georgia, a strong young man heading to a foreign land to fight for my country. Vietnam — another world, unlike anything I had ever seen before. I remember standing on the edge of the bomb crater that had been my home for five days and five nights, stretching my six-foot, two-inch frame, and becoming caught up in excitement. The battle for Khe Sanh was over, and I had come out of it unhurt and alive! Five terrible days and nights were behind us. In spite of dire predictions, we had held Khe Sanh. I had scored a personal victory over myself and my fears. I had become a soldier and could really look the old sarge in the face. As Stephen Crane put it in his great book on war, The Red Badge of Courage, “I went to face the Great Death and found it was only the Great Death.” My tour of duty in Vietnam was almost over. In another month I’d be going home. I smiled, thinking of the good times waiting stateside.

On April 8, 1968, I volunteered for one last mission. The helicopter moved in low. The troops jumped out with M16 rifles in hand as we crouched low to the ground to avoid the helicopter blades. Then I saw the grenade. It was where the chopper had lifted off. It must be mine, I thought. Grenades had fallen off my web gear before. Shifting the M16 to my left hand and holding it behind me, I bent down to pick up the grenade.

A blinding explosion threw me backwards...

 

CLICK HERE for the rest of that excerpt

[optimistically_conservative]

Yeah, this wasn't one of her best arguments.

http://www.anncoulter.org/bio.html
Coulter graduated with honors from Cornell University School of Arts & Sciences, and received her J.D. from University of Michigan Law School.

http://www.dailyillini.com/apr03/apr03/opinions/stories/opinions_column02.shtml
Michael Moore dropped out of the University of Michigan after his first year.

[an amused spectator]

Coulter is doing exactly what Cleland did

As I said before, no, she's not.

Cleland cheap-shotted the National Guard because he knew that he wouldn't get called on it.

Coulter cheap-shotted Cleland, but she knew she'd get called on it.

Don't equate the suckerpuncher who gets a freebie with the enforcer who evens the score & goes to the penalty box.

[BJungNan]

bttt

[an amused spectator]

I promise to check in periodically as long as you're posting.

LOL! Not bad, newbie. :-)

That's where Ann is. That's where he is. That's where you are.

So, my apologies if I prevented you from taking this thread there too.

You're wrong about Ann & I, but you're entitled to your own opinion, Orrin. ;-)

[optimistically_conservative]

Don't equate the suckerpuncher who gets a freebie with the enforcer who evens the score & goes to the penalty box.

That's a good analogy, kudos.

Here's my problem with it. There is an overwhelming ignorance in the public, media and unfortunately political sphere about the military. Memes like the one Cleland, McAwful, Kerry and the rest of the Dimwits are pushing further misinform and degrade those serving now and then. Attacking their credibility on this is a no brainer.

Spreading our own canards and creating our memes about the military to smear the other side doesn't help us or the military.

Now, that's just my military bias.

I thought tying Cleland to UBL over the Homeland Security Act was fair game, nasty, but fair. Spreading false stories about his service in Vietnam, no thanks.

[Fenris6]

that's fair, and since he was a CPT at the time we can run that blame game all the way down the chain of command to the enlisted guy in charge of the rookie. Seems petty, but what the hey. Strawman -it was a stupid accident resulting in casualties. The ultimate responsiblity lies with Cleland for not training & inspecting his own people properly. There's a frickin SOP for helo acticity to prevent just these kinds of things.

So, how 'bout those 101st guys that got fragged in Iraq before the war. Think we can come up with ways to criticize the officers and enlisted there too?

Yes.

"See, Ann's column has got the idiots out in force today"

Case in point. Get back to me when you 1) run out of strawmen 2) have a clue how the military works.

[Fenris6]

Lloyd said the blast was caused by another soldier’s grenade — not Cleland’s.

Right. And Jessica Lynch & Co "failed to return fire because to a man, each of their weapons malfunctioned." I just surprised Cleland's account doesn't having him "diving on a loose grenade to save the live of his men"

[RonDog]

See also:

Cleland Drops Political Grenade... On Himself [Did you know He Blew Himself Up In Vietnam?]
			Posted by 11th Earl of Mar On News/Activism 02/12/2004 5:31:52 AM PST with 49 comments Townhall ^ | 2/12/04 | Ann Coulter
Ann Coulter: Cleland drops a political grenade
			Posted by alloysteel On News/Activism 02/11/2004 11:11:19 PM PST with 171 comments Universal Press Syndicate ^ | February 12, 2004 | Ann Coulter
Cleland drops a political grenade
			Posted by perfect stranger On News/Activism 02/11/2004 4:48:18 PM PST with 218 comments WND.com ^ | February 11, 2004 | Ann Coulter

[optimistically_conservative]

You're wrong about Ann & I, but you're entitled to your own opinion, Orrin. ;-)

Yeah, let me back off that some. I appreciate Ann's sharp wit and bleeding edge attacks normally. Low blows in a political fight aren't unheard of and not everyone will agree there was a low blow.

I think she was right to take on Cleland. I just disagree with one attack vector.

[an amused spectator]

Now, THAT'S what I'm talkin about, RonDog. An actual essay by Cleland himself, instead of some fourth-hand "media puffery".

I'll have to investigate the beer thing. Looks like a typical Coulter trap - an off-handed remark designed to set off the Church Ladies, but which turns out to be a quote from the lips of the guy getting stuffed into the boards.

[an amused spectator]

I just disagree with one attack vector.

It's going to be interesting to find out why she used that shank on Cleland.