Greeks the EU's Most Fervent Anti-Americans: Poll (And the big, fat Greek horse…)

EUbusiness ^ | February 2, 2004 | Unattributed

[longtermmemmory]

ALL socialized medical systems are corrupt and defective. Like much of europe, doctors take bribes for better care. It was not until recently that a person could even sue for malpractice. That is a defect of socialism.

The content of the character of the people is a different issue. Even Greeks hate their medical system. I too have seen the hospitals, the fact that nurses are short staffed and under trained. There is no university system in Greece the way it is here. Usually those with training end up trained as best they can those without formal education.

It is not our country, you can't expect ANY country to just kowtow to the USA. EU, Islamic Fundamentalist to the North, Slavers to the East, and any other number of people with adverse interests.

The goundwork for conservative thought is there. They just need sources of information.

Want to be useful, start a greek language FreeRepublic.

[the FLY]

Anti-Americanism is the issue. It has always been the issue. Of course they will not be against Karamanlis, or Papandreou, they are Greek in their eyes.
However, a question was posed to all of us about why the Greeks are anti-American and I gave my opinion. An opinion, I feel, based on reality. No doubt there are pockets of support, but the poll says 85%, I'm surprised it's that low, frankly.

I have a question or two to pose: How is it that the people of the Greece and the world at large view the US as more of a threat to world peace than Saddam Hussein? or In Greece why would the people continue electing a government that is increasingly incapable of producing results for the Greek people?

My contention is that the corrupt world leaders who sponge off of American aid and trade have to perpetuate the idea that "America is stealing our oil, or America is holding us down, or America supports Turkey," or whatever other BS is out there so that the people don't wake up and throw those clowns out. Greece is the classic example, however not as extreme as the Arab world. The people remain ignorant while the rulers consolodate their control.

[longtermmemmory]

Since I travel back and forth quite often, I can tell you your perception is not reality on the streets of Greece. Papandreou's son has been trying to make an issue of the American Birth. It has been shown on the three sattelite channels which are beamed to the USA.

They even have a version of c-span for their unicameral parlament, if you speak Greek. I find it useful during significant events to get information straight from the horses mouth. http://www.parliament.gr/default.asp Click on the blue square with the word resembling "BOYLH"

The 85% has all the credibility of Saddam's last election. I have traveled there extensivly and can only imagine where you get your information.

In answer to you question, the do not view the US as a greater threat to Saddam. When Saddam started with his wars back in x41 days, the Greeks has major construction projects going in Iraq. The subsequent invasion and UN sanctions have hurt them ecconomically. No concrete exports.

You are right on point about the concerns about not getting oil beause the americans will take it all. Same as france and german politicians btw, and they got oil vouchers.

The are not ignorant about their rulers corruption. Or more accuratly the limitation of ruling to a set group of families. The KNOW, that what makes them upset. They also want in.

Did you know that government doctors expect a "gratuty envelope" (aka a bribe)? Did you know the governemtn calculates the bribe in determing doctor's pay? Did you know "gratuity" evelopes for building permits is also the norm.

When the new airport was competed ahead of schedule, people complained that it should be opened immediatly. People did not care the highway connecting to the airport was not finished and behind schedule. Result, they opened the airport and the people had a new opportunity to complain about traffic.

You can't make a Greece into the USA and nor would you want to. Its a small country, with only a promise of natural resources. Greeks in Greece don't like it when they feel their government is being intrusive why should they like that about anyone elses.

IF you want a classic example of anti-americanism go to france.

As for throwing the clowns out, easier said than done, its a unicameral parlament system. It uses a formula of proportional representations that protects incumbants and their parties. For tunatly the inertia is against the socialists.

It is not the same Greece caught in betweent the cold war. You can sit in athens, sip your starbucks, go to McDonalds and order a McToast (yes that is real, not american toast, its a toasted ham and chese sandwich) and consider going out for Chinese food.

Sit back, have an ouzo, count your blessings because life is way too short.

[the FLY]

What does that say about the Greek people if they keep electing leaders they know to be corrupt? It would speak better of the Greek character if they didn't know and kept electing them.

I've been to Greece many times, lived in Athens in the eighties, and speak to my Greek relatives almost every other day. I don't know what street you live on, but Greece is EXTREMELY anti-American. If for nothing else other than that is in fashion.

The Greeks enjoy a decadent western lifestyle, out at cafes and bars, topless or bottomless on the beaches, discos, theater, art, and now the Olympics...much of this was secured by the willingness of the USA to defend western values against totalitarianism. No one can deny that. Can you imagine Europe today had the US not existed? Instead of "Thank You" they are the most "fervent" anti-Americans.

Greece is more like Nigeria or Bangladesh than a European country, that's for sure.

[Destro]

Kosovo? Bosnia? Cyprus? Macedonia? Hmm who did America back on all these four conflicts? They had one thing in common. Muslims. That is my guess.

[longtermmemmory]

Remember the twice elected bill clinton? hilary clinton of "NY"? Senator Byrd? Ted Kennedy? Gray-out Davis? Rockafeller?

Are you reading a different thread? You have not once adressed the obvious bias of the story. You would rather rely on an EUBusiness based article than the reality on the street.

Did you ever think the article could have some priority to try and chase business away from Greece? I have family who are in Greece and setting up businesses. Every major area has its McDonalds and other american chaings. Starbucks in Athens is always busy.

You obviously have not been there in the last 20 years. Athens is as modern as any other world class city. The Commecial towns of Pyrgos and Larisa have updated their commercial districts to resemble shopping malls style polish. Going and gone are the grungy old cafes. In are the polished coffee bars.

The Greeks in Greece know they have a big bullseye on their backs for 2004. They KNOW that the USA kept the commies at bay during the cold war. They KNOW the USA keept the Arabs at bay now. BTW it was the British who blasted the communist party (KKE) headquarters at the end of WWII to ensure the decocratic leadership took power not the Americans. It still was a bloody civil war until 1951. ("By Fire and Axe" by Averoff is a good book on the subject on Greece between 1945 to 1951. It is translated into English. Don't let a commie see you reading it, the book really ticks them off.)

Remember while the USA was rebuilding France and Germany, the Greeks were left to their own devices. Where was the US intervention to kick out the commies? stop the slaughter?

Decadent lifestyle? Slower paced yes, but decadent? If Greece is Decadent then the USA is one nonstop 24 hour playboy mansion orgy.

The Greeks have been pushing for the olympics to return to greece since 1996. Your smart*ss ignorant comment about nigera and bangladesh are the same Barbara Streisand that Atlanta used to secure the olympics in 1996. (the only olympics the President of the IOC did not declare the best olympics ever.)

This survey is no different than the Kerry ahead of Bush polls. You have to read the fine print to see the methodology.

If you find the lifestyle too decadent, I wold be more than happy to show you the mountain top monestaries of Meteora (aka the bottom level of Heaven). You would find it a most peaceful way to avoid being overstimulated by decadence.

[Destro]

You mean like the billionaire Greek named Taki who financed Pat Buchanan's magazine the American Conservative?

Lastly, all I know about Greece's healtcare is that Greeks on average out live most Western people - including Americans. I read somewhere that lots of sex and being married makes you live longer - so that may be it or it may be that Greek food rich in olive oil and low in fat is what does it.

[Destro]

Greece is the epitome of a European people. Europa after all is a Greek name.

[longtermmemmory]

But those logevity tools have nothing to do with a government program. The national healthcare of Greece is a royal mess. But that is socialized medicine issue not a "greek" issue.

Ever seen a montreal hospital staffed with french canadian nurses?

[the FLY]

This article is trying to push business away from Greece? Oh yeah, I guess it is not true about the anti-American sentiment all over Greece. As I said in another post, I was in Greece right after 9/11, I guess all the protesters in front of the US embassy were plants by the Americans just to push American business away. Truly Greek thinking, I must say.

I beg to differ with you on what you say the Greeks KNOW. You must be hanging out with the 10-15 really educated, well travelled, non-communist Greeks. Bravo. The rest blame America for everything.

Listen, I've done my share of partying in my day, and I've never partied more than I have in Greece. Maybe you and your 10-15 friends I mentioned go to Starbucks for a Mocha and then call it a night, but everyone else in Greece is out all hours. Hats off to them, but don't sell me MALAKIES.

Never been to Pyrgos, and just driven through Larissa. Can't vouch for the ultra posh commercial districts. I hope they are as you say, but give them a few years. Only briefly in Meteora and was humbled by the majesty. That's the thing with Greece, they were doing great things a long time ago. Now they just sit and complain, drink coffee, smoke too much, and find new ways to blame other people for their problems. Just their nature, I guess.

What do you think the most corrupt country in the EU resembles? More like Bangladesh or Sweden?

p.s. there was never anything wrong with the grungy old cafes.

[longtermmemmory]

I was there during the buildup to the Iraq war. Most of the protesters you say in the media were albanians and communist students. I even recognized a few from the university. You just have to figure out whose ox is being gored. Thants to the proportional elections the communists are expected to get 6% of the vote and seats in parlament. (a cold war holdover situation)

There is no reason to use vulgaries. Staying out all night is a reason to go to Greece to party. I am looking forward to the celebrations in August. I expect two weeks of 24hour parties. Dancing on the tables, throwing flowers by the trayful at singers, and getting friends on time to work is just part of the ritual.

As for the most corrupt country in Europe? I don't know if FRANCE resembles Bangladesh or Sweden.

Perhaps you should just leave enjoying life to the professionals.

[the FLY]

France wasn't reported as the most corrupt in EU, Greece was. And France DOES resemble a country that once had a proud culture. Compare Paris to Athens, Champs Elysee to Leoforos Alexandras, I mean really.

Just pray that the celebrations don't become embarassment. Also, pray some poor Albanian got the stadiums finished. Just in case, find somebody to blame now.

Dancing, flowers, ahh...the memories. i've had many a night like that and they are fun. As I've gotten a bit older I enjoy things like meaningful work, having a family and good family life, and living life as if it is a gift not to be squandered. Different perspectives I guess.

Dance on the tables, Zorba...the US will be there when you need her.

[longtermmemmory]

Paris to Athens, Rude obnoxious French to warm and inviting Greeks.

(Even the French at Epcot's World Shocase are rude.)