Opponents of origin theories plan presentation [Montana schools & Evolution]

MontanaForum ^ | 20 January 2004 | JENNY JOHNSON

[Right Wing Professor]

An excellent article. Thanks for posting it.

[PatrickHenry]

I think the article shows: (a) the scientific worthlessness of ID; and (b) the absurdity of asking high school students to sort through such issues.

[VadeRetro]

Very good analysis of the types of design. I don't remember seeing that before.

[whattajoke]

You're right that ID isn't a "scientific theory."

We agree on that.

Neither is the idea that from inorganic materials, life developed and evolved, baby-step-by-baby-step to we'uns.

Agreed, there is currently no "scientific theory" to describe the origin of life. There are many ideas about it, but none stand the rigorous tests to qualify as a theory. But that's not evolution, as John H K has pointed out previously. However, your next statement about "life developing into 'we-uns'," is incorrect. The theory of evolution is most certainly a theory.

Evolution is a theory about "natural history," not science.

Wrong.

ID is a theory about "design," not science.

Wrong. ID is as much of a theory as my theory about putting my socks on in a certain way affects the outcome of my favorite football team.

we'll have to wait a long long time for the first "scientific" evolutionary experiment. ID has its own set of problems, but the point is....so does everyone else.

Wrong. I'm sure one of the other fine posters on this thread can supply you with enough scientific experiments regarding evolution to keep you busy for the rest of you life. IF you were to actually read them, that is.

[whattajoke]

But the evolution lobby insists that "without evolution biology doesn't make any sense."

The "evolution lobby" prefers to be referred to as, "Darwin Central." We are a shadowy collection of ne'er-do-wells and evil scientists hell bent of destroying the moral fiber of America. Thank you.

My creationist uncle farms 1,000 acres very successfully. How is this possible?

What does he farm? My guess is that he unknowingly uses many tenets of evolutionary theory and biology on a daily basis.

And what about the eye doctor who teaches a Sunday School class at my church and says "I'm no expert on 'evolution of protozoa,' but I'll tell you this: As an expert on the subject, the eye did not evolve." How could he be so successful at eye surgery, when biology doesn't make any sense to him?

Cute story...and I have no reason to doubt it I suppose, though I'd be curious to discuss this with him before he goes poking into my eyes. I'm sure some of the other fine posters on this thread will happily supply you with a mountain of scientific evidence showing you (and the good doctor) why his statement is patently untrue.

I just get so tired when I keep seeing the evo-tribe constantly over-reaching.

"DARWIN CENTRAL! Not "evo-tribe!" Thank you.

Okay, I don't have an advanced degree in hard science, and the degree i do have is from a non-atheist school. I'll shut up and go away now.

An odd sign off. We won't bite, I promise! We're actually very nice people and we can limit this week's lesson to the evolution of the eye and nothing more.

Does anyone here have a degree from an "Atheist school?"

[Doctor Stochastic]

And I used to teach that "2+2=4" rather than some alternative theory. (Okay, 2+2 could be 5 for really large values of 2.)

[PatrickHenry]

I'm sure some of the other fine posters on this thread will happily supply you with a mountain of scientific evidence showing you (and the good doctor) why his statement ["the eye did not evolve"] is patently untrue.

This is not a terribly difficult assignment:

Evolution of the Eye.
How Could An Eye Evolve?
The Evolution of Color Vision .

[Doctor Stochastic]

Excellent article. I would like to add that evolutionary theory only predicts a selection by negation; no forsight is suggested. One might sneak "final causes" into physics by appealing to Fermat's (and Hamilton's) "Principal of Extremal Action."

[Doctor Stochastic]

Note the Darwintern does not send out agents to commit natural selection.

[PatrickHenry]

That doesn't Google very well. Do you have a link? Or a more searchable phrase?

[Doctor Stochastic]

I searched on principal extremal action. The idea is that paths taken by light (or particles) minimize (or in rare cases maximize) the action.

[PatrickHenry]

It works better with "principle." No problem now.

[Doctor Stochastic]

The spell chequer said it was ok.

[PatrickHenry]

Rite.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

Does anyone here have a degree from an "Atheist school?"

Will a Jesuit school do? ;)

[jennyp]

And I used to teach that "2+2=4" rather than some alternative theory. (Okay, 2+2 could be 5 for really large values of 2.)

Some people insist that 2+2 equals 22.

[Modernman]

Does anyone here have a degree from an "Atheist school?"

I wasn't aware that universities were segregated by religion. You learn something new every day.

[itsahoot]

I wasn't aware that universities were segregated by religion

No more so than the news is segregated by political party, and for the same reasons.

[Doctor Stochastic]

To reduce 64/16, just cancel the 6.

[VadeRetro]

OMG! You've actually discovered the shortcut to fractions I've been seeking for 50 years!