Bush Immigration Proposal Angering Conservatives; Contributions witheld (Drudge developing)

Drudge Report ^ | 01.15.04 | Drudge

[BlessingsofLiberty]

I have always believed that anything bad could be turned into something positive. I thought that this country would take the horrible attack of 9/11 and turn it into to something positive for our country. I was hoping that really good people could change the negativity, learn from our mistakes and turn this country around. But, so far, this hasn't occurred.

I thought that after 9/11, President Bush would see the folly of his position on immigration and try to do the best thing for the USA and its citizens. Obviously, this has not happened and I am deeply saddened by his recent decision to put Mexico and illegals above our own national security.

We have no idea who the purported 8 to 10 million illegals are; nor, do we know how many are here for sinister reasons. But, certainly, anyone who comes to this country illegally has no respect for our laws, culture, or people.

Any public official who would support such illegal activity has no respect for our Constitution and no faith in the future of the United States.

[B4Ranch]

rewrite:when that person has been cleared you get nothing. When that person has been arrested by the LEO's, you get $50.

[B4Ranch]

Any public official who would support such illegal activity has no respect for our Constitution and no faith in the future of the United States.

Then why do people support the politicians who want it to continue?

[Johnny_Cipher]

rewrite:when that person has been cleared you get nothing. When that person has been arrested by the LEO's, you get $50.

What will probably end up happening is:

When that person is arrested by the LEOs, you get $50. When that person is cleared, the person sues you for malicious prosecution and ends up moving into your house and driving your car.

[Sabertooth]

Yes, look at the "illegal alien crime wave thread". That is a verified fact that State and local government has NO interest in "rounding them up". Back to you.

Fallacy of irrelevance.

President Bush doesn't need the state and local governments to lead him to faithfully execute his duties as the nation's chief law enforcement officer, and neither he nor you can use that as an excuse when he fails to do so, as is the case with Illegals.

Does the President need the state and local governments help to prevent Illegals from absconding once they lose their deportation hearings? Yet more than 100,000 Illegals have done just that, on this President's watch, since 9/11.

There are upwards of 400,000 individuals who have received final deportation orders that are hiding in our communities. Their appeals have run out, and those orders tell them, “it’s time to go.” But, the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement can’t find them! What’s worse, 80,000 of those people have criminal convictions, just like Miguel Angelo Gordoba! They were in the hands of our law enforcement. Can you imagine opening the doors of our prisons and letting 80,000 criminals run back into the streets? Well folks, that’s exactly what has happened with these 80,000 criminal aliens.

What’s more, 3,800 of those people with final deportation orders are from countries with a known Al-Qaeda presence.
Statement of the Honorable Charlie Norwood
The CLEAR Act of 2003
July 9, 2003

Compare these figures to those of two years ago...

The Justice Department's decision to track down and deport 6,000 Middle Eastern aliens who've been ordered to leave the country attracted howls of protest from all the usual places earlier this week. The government has a list of more than 300,000 deportable immigrants.
Deportation Disorder
National Review Online
John J. Miller & Ramesh Ponnuru | January 10th, 2002

These are federal deportation hearings. Simply by taking the Illegals into custody pending deportation when they lose their cases would solve the problem. The President has done nothing toward this end. I'm not sure what you expect the state and local governments to do in federal deportation hearings.

In addition, I haven't suggested anything like "rounding them all up," I gave you a link suggesting quite the opposite.

Here are some more...

They Will Deport Themselves

Eighteen Illegal Alien solutions that are better than any Amnesty

25% of Pakistani Illegal Aliens Deported Themselves since 2001 -
Facts against the Bush Amnesty

Have you got anything to bring to the table besides impertinence? Just curious.

[Texasforever]

You missed my point. On what criteria is the "bounty hunter" basing his report on? How can the "bounty hunter" know the legal status of ANYONE? How many people would risk having themselves hauled into court after being sued for turning in the wrong person? Are you suggesting prior immunity for false reports? It is never going to happen. I just don't get how you think that one item in an otherwise fairly well thought out plan is wise.

[B4Ranch]

Do all this under Executive Order and tell the Courts to back off. This is national security!

[Mortimer Snavely]

"...Dean or one of the other Dems, any one of them are a major danger to the country and possibly our very survival. "

The point is that Bush is a major danger to our country and to our survival.

This nation cannot stand such destructive policies being implemented under the guise of conservatism. If Bush is all that's left between us and disaster, we are doomed.

[BlessingsofLiberty]

I can't speak for all of the citizens. I can only follow my own conscience. I will never compromise this great gift that so many have sacrificed to give me. I will never vote for anyone that does.

[B4Ranch]

If hiring rules were changed that would mean no jobs. The illegals would be turning each other in to get the easy cash.

[Johnny_Cipher]

Do all this under Executive Order and tell the Courts to back off. This is national security!

King Canute also issued such an "executive order." And look where it got him - very, very wet.

[B4Ranch]

Tough dealing with Sabertoths arguments isn't it?

[B4Ranch]

Would you rather do it under Martial Law?

[Texasforever]

President Bush doesn't need the state and local governments to lead him to faithfully execute his duties as the nation's chief law enforcement officer, and neither he nor you can use that as an excuse when he fails to do so, as is the case with Illegals.

Yes he does. The FED does not work in a vacuum. He is faithfully upholding his oath to the constitution to the best of his ability. Tell me is he not upholding anti-drug laws just because the problem is bigger than the resources at hand? Of course not. The INS is still enforcing the laws to the best of its ability and resources but the problem cannot be closed to solved until and unless the States views on the subject come into line with each other and the Feds. Everything else is academic until then. I think you are smart enough to know it too.

[FastCoyote]

"In other words, you have NO evidence. Thank you. Why didn't you just say so? "

That's just bizarre, I just told you I have personal experience with the whole situation here, in other words I am an affected witness giving testimony and personal evidence about the activity of illegal aliens. What are you looking for, the Pope to etch it on your forehead? On the other hand, I asked you for evidence that there was no "reconquista" being attempted by Mecha and Vincente Fox and the many illegals I've spoken to, and you go into some Red Herring about the Third Reich. Sheesh, take some logic pills.

"Now take your "gasbag", hold it tight around your mouth and nose, and breathe into it repeatedly. It'll help you stop hyperventilating."

---

The Judges Score: 6.0, 6.0, 6.0 (childish, meaningless, and self defeating). People who use this kind of response technique seem to be deflecting attention from an inability to form cogent arguments.

[Texasforever]

Not at all.

[B4Ranch]

Looking at the polls would like to put these ideas on the next election?

"The National Population Council reported that 9.9 million Mexicans call America home and that more than 7.82 million of those - or 79 percent - do not have U.S. citizenship. It did not break down how many had legal residence papers."

"According to a RoperASW poll from last year, 83 percent of Americans support mandatory detention and forfeiture of property for illegal immigrants, followed by deportation."

[Johnny_Cipher]

Would you rather do it under Martial Law?

I'd rather do it by recognizing that I can't use the Constitution like so much toilet paper and just grab every Hispanic-looking individual on the streets and deport them without due process. Like Bush, I'd probably try to do it by giving those who come here genuinely seeking work the opportunity to register and do so legally, then go after the few remaining who don't play by the rules.

[B4Ranch]

Let me make sure I have this right.

Would you rather do it under Martial Law?
853 posted on 01/16/2004 12:00:27 AM PST by B4Ranch (Wave your flag, don't waive your rights!)

Not at all.
856 posted on 01/16/2004 12:01:45 AM PST by Texasforever

You would give up all of your rights in order to get all the illegal aiens out of United States? Correct?

[Johnny_Cipher]

I just told you I have personal experience with the whole situation here, in other words I am an affected witness giving testimony and personal evidence about the activity of illegal aliens.

And everybody on the Internet is rich, handsome/beautiful, and oversexed. Anecdotal "evidence" such as you presented is useless because it cannot be corroborated.

What are you looking for, the Pope to etch it on your forehead?

Well, we know that Al Qaeda exists because they attacked our country on 9/11, our intelligence forces intercept "chatter" from AQ sympathizers, other countries' intelligence apparatus haul in AQ operatives within their countries, et al. Where is the Aztlan "chatter" in Mexico (other than a very few wackjob, tinfoil web sites)? Where are the multi-million dollar mansions in Mexico City where Aztlan is headquartered? Where is the evidence of Aztlan operatives trying to poison US politicians, rig US elections, etc?

On the other hand, I asked you for evidence that there was no "reconquista" being attempted by Mecha and Vincente Fox and the many illegals I've spoken to

In other words, you're asking me to prove a negative. Logical fallacy, but nice try.