USS 'Liberty' hit was unintentional, says CIA

JPost ^ | 01-13-04 | JANINE ZACHARIA

[Moseley]

I notice that the transcripts are of Israeli rescue pilots. Where in the hell are the transcripts of the fighter pilots that "identified" the ship prior to attack and where are the transcripts of the command to attack the vessel.

That is absolutely false. Go back and read it again. The transcripts are of the radio traffic of the fighter pilots. Notice the emphasis on the PROGRESSIVE change in their perception. They started out absolutely certain that the ship was Egyptian and PROGRESSIVELY changed their perception.

THAT IS NOT TALKING ABOUT THE RESCUE PILOTS, which came only LONG AFTER Israel finally realized that the ship was American.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Tel Aviv told Washington to get the ship out, but where is the record of Washington telling the ship to get out?

[Moseley]

THE OVERWHELMING ISSUE HERE IS THAT there was the risk of DRAWING THE US INTO A THIRD WORLD WAR with the Soviet Union. The most urgent and important issue in this incident was TO AVOID SPARKING A THERMONUCLEAR WAR WITH THE SOVIET UNION. Having a US Warship so close to the battle -- or WAR PLANES TAKING OFF FROM A NULEAR-ARMED CARRIER -- could have been interpreted as the USA joining the war on the side of Israel. This could have resulted in the Soviet Union entering on the side of Israel. Rememer we were in a HOT WAR already in Vietnam at that time.. This could have led to NUCLEAR WAR.

So the most important thing was to avoid sparking a war unintentionally.

That is why the survivors of the USS Liberty should have been COURT-MARTIALED for DISOBEYING ORDERS to withdraw from the region. The orders were transmitted to the aircraft carrier LONG BEFORE the incident, and the aircraft carrier DID retransmit the orders, I don't care what they say. This dereliction of duty placed MILLIONS of Americans at risk of a NUCLEAR WAR.

[HiTech RedNeck]

OK, if you’d like the USA just to leave the scene alone next time a superpower (China maybe?) comes after Israel, maybe we can find some politicians that would be glad to accommodate.

[Moseley]

The pilot was heard reporting to HQ that he saw an American flag and men sunning themselves on deck. BULLSHIT! This never happened. While the attack was underway, an even larger flag was hoisted. AND THAT IS WHEN THE ATTACK WAS CALLED OFF.

[Moseley]

Most of us here love America.

Uh, no you don't. You may love hearing yourself SAY that. You may love your reputation. But you do not love America, if you spread absolute garbage, that no rational person woudl take seriously, SO AS TO HARM AMERICA AND AMERICA'S STRATEGIC RELATIONSHIPS, weakening the United States' place in the world and security.

WITH FRIENDS LIKE YOU, THE USA DOES NOT NEED ENEMIES.

[Moseley]

I've yet to see any credible reason ... My theory is because the ship was picking up all sorts of traffic and relaying it raw, on open channels, back to US spooks.

AND THEN WHY DID ISRAEL STOP THE ATTACK? The purported goal of the attack WAS NOT ACCOMPLISHED if the ship was not destroyed, along with the information recorded. WHY tick off Israel's ONLY ALLY IN THE ENTIRE WORLD, and the only ally Israel could ever expect to have, WITHOUT ACHIEVING THE SUPPOSED OBJECTIVE? Pretty dumb explanation, don't you think?

As the Israeli fighter pilot Spector told the Jerusalem Post, had he only been ARMED WITH A BOMB instead of bullets, the Liberty would have been sunk within the first few minutes. IF ISRAEL WANTED TO DISRUPT INFORMATION TO ITS CLOSEST ALLY IN THE WORLD, they would have sent the airplanes out properly armed with bombs, not with light machine gun bullets. Yet they did not? Why?

[Moseley]

According to Body of Secrets, Isreal butched some Eyptians on the sinai because the ISrealis did not have the manpower to handle prisoners. Isreal wanted this hushed up, so she attacked the america spy ship.

Can you see that inside the Sinai Peninsula from a ship 13 miles out in the water??? NO!!!!!

REMEMBER: The Liberty was a SIGNALS LISTENING (eavesdropping) SHIP. It could not see what was happening on the ground.

MEANWHILE, the US already had satellites in orbit -- this was 2 years before the US landed on the mooon ! -- and reconnassiance aircraft THAT WOULD HAVE SEEN what was happening on the ground, and could not be stopped. Again, a pretty stupid explanation, don't you think?

[Moseley]

How do you not see a giant American flag? or USS Liberty painted on the side of the ship.

You should get out from your yacht club into the real world every now and then. THE NAME IS NOT PAINTED ON THE SIDE OF WARSHPS. Furthermore, do ou not understand the concept of warships FAKING their identity in the middle of a war?

[Natural Law]

At the risk of being banned for daring to post anything critical of Israel I am calling Bullsh*t.

Israel was acting in the Sinai on information they could have only gotten from sourced inside the Pentagon. If the Liberty were allowed to get closer they would have confirmed this. The Liberty was attacked to protect Israel's intelligence sources. Israel was acting purely in self interest and for self preservation. Understandable, yes. Forgivable, no.

[Stonewall Jackson]

I don't remember all of the particulars of this attack but, as I recall, it went on for an hour or so.

It's kind of like the Duke rape scandal. A single attack could be excused as a regrettable mistake, but the continued assaults are criminal.

[Politicalmom]

Why are you dredging up an article that is over three years old?

[azhenfud]

Numerous mistakes were made by both the United States and Israel. For example, the Liberty was first reported — incorrectly, as it turned out — to be cruising at 30 knots (it was later recalculated to be 28 knots). Under Israeli (and U.S.) naval doctrine at the time, a ship proceeding at that speed was presumed to be a warship. The sea was calm and the U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry found that the Liberty's flag was very likely drooped and not discernible;

There's no way a flag can "droop" in a 32MPH wind on open water. Most 3x5 heavy cotton bunting will fly fully aloft at 8MPH on a normal landlocked 20ft staff..

Something's just not right with that statement...

[Moseley]

We are talking about a US warship that was known to be in the area by the Israelis.

NO IT WAS NOT KNOWN TO BE IN THE AREA! Israel affirmatively asked the US by cable "Do you have any ships in the area?" THE UNITED STATES SAID NO! WE DO NOT HAVE ANY SHIPS IN THE AREA. Please go back and READ the original article.

By the way, I'm not a Jew hater or do I speak constant derision of Israel.

Yes, I am afraid you are, whether you know it or not. The US bombed Canadian troops in Afghanistan and British troops in Iraq. Were those intentional or accidental? If you apply a double-standard then YES YOU ARE a Jew hater.

[Moseley]

A horse hauler (freighter) cannot do 28 knots..period. No freighter of the time could. I am quite sure that the Israeli reconnaissance airplane that circled the ship about an hour before the attack recognized this was a warship. I know our P-3 crews would. I am positive that the torpedo boat crew knew this also before attacking.

DEAR BIGOT:

The USS LIBERTY WAS A CARGO SHIP, NIT WIT, from World War II, that was converted to reconnaissance use! It was one of those extremely flimsy Victory ships churned out by the hundreds, some of which fell apart form their own defects in rough seas. My grandmother raised funds in Boston to pay for a Liberty ship to be built.

Meanwhile, you falsely pretend that the pilots were viewing two ships side by side. SHAME ON YOU! Not even a bigot can be that dumb! Surely you have looked down from an aircraft window at a boat in the water, and noticed how YOU CANNOT TELL THE SIZE of what you are looking at. Thee is no sense of scale against the water below. No one can be that dumb. You are simply allowing your hatred for America's allies and America's strategic relatoinships in the world to completely twist your thinking.

[Moseley]

There's no way a flag can "droop" in a 32MPH wind on open water.

Oh, yes it can! I grew up on boats. A flag can foul, and while whipping back and forth, it is usually NOT visible. But more to the point, when an aircraft is flying past at 300 miles per hour, half a mile above a ship, a flag the size of a football field could not be identified. FURTHERMORE, WHY DO YOU IMAGINE AN EGYPTIAN SHIP COULD NOT BE FLYING AN AMERICAN FLAG FOR DECEPTION? Your arguments are so irrational that only hatred for American and America's strategic relationships could cuase you to make them.

But, finally, we have the radio traffic among the fighter pilots, intercepted by US spy planes in the area. WE KNOW the pilots' did not see any American flag. THE US HAS ITS OWN COPIES of the radio conversations, intercepted by US spy planes. You can SPECULATE all day long, but we know for a FACT that the pilots did not see any flag.

[Moseley]

Tel Aviv told Washington to get the ship out, but where is the record of Washington telling the ship to get out?

The US battle group (aircraft carrier flagship) received the order for ALL US ships -- ALL OF THEM, not any one by name, EVERYONE GET OUT -- to withdraw from the area by at least 400 miles. (The 100 mentioned here is incorrect.)

The orders for ALL warships to get out of the battle zone were received by the battle group LONG, LONG before the incident. The orders were re-transmitted to the USS Liberty. However, THE LIBERTY WAS A SIGNALS LISTENNG SHIP, FOR GOD'S SAKE! IT WAS AN NSA EAVESDROPPING SHIP! It was there listening in to radio communications and signals traffic!

Oh My God, how stupid are we going to be to pursue an anti-American agenda of hate?

The USS Liberty had the capabiility to receive orders WITHOUT waiting for those orders to be re-transmitted.

And yet the USS Liberty claims that it never heard the orders to withdraw from the battle zone. IT WAS AN NSA EAVESDROPPING SHIP!!!! It's whole reason for existing was its ability to receive radio signals! And they did not pick up the order to leave the battle zone???? YEAH, RIGHT!

The bottom line is that this was gross incompetence on the part of the radio operator on the USS Liberty or foolish bravado on the part of the Captain, thinking that he could win some glory by staying in a battle zone.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Plot thickens... Israeli JAMMING?

[Moseley]

At the risk of being banned for daring to post anything critical of Israel I am calling Bullsh*t. Israel was acting in the Sinai on information they could have only gotten from sourced inside the Pentagon. If the Liberty were allowed to get closer they would have confirmed this. The Liberty was attacked to protect Israel's intelligence sources. Israel was acting purely in self interest and for self preservation. Understandable, yes. Forgivable, no.

AGAIN, YOU GUYS DON'T SEEM TO CARE ABOUT FACTS. The Liberty was a SIGNALS LISTENING SHIP. It could not see anything on the ground in the Sinai FROM SEA LEVEL, 13 miles out from the edge of the coast line. Meanwhile, this was 2 years before the US landed on the moon. We had satellites watching the battle. We had high-flying U2 / Blackbird spy planes watching the battle zone. Attacking the USS Liberty would accomplish nothing along the lines of what you suggest.

[Moseley]

Why are you dredging up an article that is over three years old?

It is linked to by Wikipedia as a source. Or it came up in a search, forget which. But the nonsense here is uspetting.