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Unruly Students Facing Arrest, Not Detention
NY Times ^ | January 4, 2004 | SARA RIMER

Posted on 01/03/2004 10:49:15 AM PST by neverdem

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To: XBob
They don't have enough of these programs in every school. I used to disagree with those programs --- but lately from what I've seen --- it's obvious many kids aren't headed for college --- they should just get started on real careers now.
61 posted on 01/04/2004 11:29:21 PM PST by FITZ
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To: logan; WOSG
56 - newbe logan - you better start 'running' back to your home in liberal lala land, as you are the problem - no respect or common sense, to where there are no rules, no authority, no morals, no duty and no responsibility.

Here we are trying to fix the mess you and your kind made. After you get out of school and have to support yourself, stop back and see us.
62 posted on 01/04/2004 11:40:02 PM PST by XBob
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To: FITZ
61 - That's too bad they don't have many of those programs anymore. They can do great things.

It is one of the places that the great German craftsmanship and trademen come from.

In their system (at least the way it was when I was there in the 70's), they divide the kids in about 8th grade, those who are going to be 'workers' and those who are going after more education. For the 'workers', they start 7-8 year apprenticeship programs. For others they go on to 'hoch schule', where when they graduate, they are basically about two years ahead of our students here, before they go on to college.

So, they get fine craftsmen and fine scholars. One size does not fit all.
63 posted on 01/04/2004 11:49:31 PM PST by XBob
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To: XBob
I used to be against that --- I figured everyone should take college-prep courses because they might not plan to go to college right now -- but at some later point they may like to and it would be better to have had those courses.

I think now that it's not practical to believe everyone must or will go to college --- they need to be prepared for a job and if they aren't coming to class every day or showing much interest --- it's better they get job skills --- they can still change their minds later and take the classes then.
64 posted on 01/05/2004 12:02:11 AM PST by FITZ
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To: Syncro
""Sheriff John" after a kids program on TV back in the day"

I was a member of Sheriff John's Lunch Brigade also!!!! Noon time cartoon show in Southern Cal. in the 50s. Great times growing up!

Nam Vet

65 posted on 01/05/2004 1:07:14 AM PST by Nam Vet (It's a small world. So you gotta use your elbows a lot.)
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To: FITZ
they should just get started on real careers now.

I used to tell mine, no need to study, just go steal a grocery cart and start their career early.

66 posted on 01/05/2004 2:08:42 PM PST by itsahoot (The lesser of two evils, is evil still...Alan Keyes)
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To: XBob
Great; because I don't think people -- and especially not school administrators -- should smack kids around as a matter of course I'm a liberal in your eyes?

Here's a clue: violence as a means of getting people to do what you want is not common sense. It's facism. I don't have kids yet, but when I do you can be damn sure I don't want some vice principle laying a f'ing hand on them.

You're on the lunatic fringe. I'm not in school, but for argument's sake, if I were, how would I have had a chance to "make" any kind of mess for you to clean up? Take a deep breath and come back to the world of adult conversation, please.
67 posted on 01/07/2004 1:28:59 PM PST by logan
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To: logan
67 - Well, I guess we ought to get our fascist troops out of the mid-east. And we ought to eliminate our fascist troops from protecting us around the world. and I guess our fasicst educators who used corporal punishment to form the 'greatest' generation which beat the NAZIs and Japs and Soviets, were all tyranical crazies.

LOL - liberal ignoramus, you are really funny.

The freeforall mess in todays classrooms is the creation of people like you. The messes began with liberal classrooms full of teens brought up on Dr Spocks philosophy, of don't spank the kids, don't blame them, don't judge them.

When you are older, Please don't have any kids. Our society has enough trouble, with weak Chamberlin types now - look at all the lilly livered liberal democrats who think just like you.
68 posted on 01/07/2004 7:47:46 PM PST by XBob
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To: Support Free Republic

”. I was shocked that these incidents happen. I am a student in a private school in Greece and I have never even thought about children being arrested by the police for being rude to the teacher or having a fight without serious injuries and weapons. All these problems would be solved by the teachers and would end up as a detention or a suspension depending on the occasion.
We read this article in class and the first thing that came to my mind at that moment was “I don’t understand, are the teachers that bad at controlling a class that they need to arrest the students.” When we started discussing it further a fellow student in my class said the following, “What a waste of time, I would prefer going to a Juvenile Detention Center than a detention because you miss the hole day! And I mean it doesn’t even help the student to make him behave better!” Isn’t that true? How can it help a child that has mental problems for example, who is sent because he was sent to a time-out area and urinated on the floor? “an 8-year-old boy in a special-education class was charged with disorderly conduct this fall for his behavior in a time-out room: urinating on the floor.”
The judges will also agree that the schools are finding an easy way out on problems that can be dealt with in the school itself. “Arrests in the past year or so include two middle school boys whose crime was turning off the lights in the girls’ bathroom and an 11-year-old girl who was arrested for “hiding in the school and not going to class,” according to the police report, which also noted, “The suspect continuously does not listen in class and disrupts the learning process of other students.” “ The school didn’t need to arrest the two boys for switching off the lights and specially not arrest and handcuff a 11-year-old girl. In our school the girl would have gotten a harsh detention and the two boys would be in no trouble whatsoever.
As James Ray has said in your article, that system is “demonizing” the students. The students will start hating the school even more making them be ruder, more violent and more revolting towards the teachers and even their parents. “Experts say the growing criminalization of student misbehaviour can be traced to the broad zero-tolerance policies”. If you teach kids that they have no rights whatsoever, then kids will eventually view, as they grow older, that their elders and peers are undeserving of rights as well. Zero-tolerance policies teach children that the United States is NOT the land of the free. At our school we had a class revolution against our school uniform, if the teachers would bring the police it would make the whole school revolt and would end up in the news as the biggest scandal of the year.
When we read the article in class I was shocked by the fact that the mother of the handcuffed daughter supported the Juvenile Detention Center. “I told them if she didn’t want to go to school, put her in the detention center.” I cannot believe that a mother can accept that the daughter should be handcuffed and put in a detention center which actually is what the small girl wanted in a way. She didn’t want to have lessons, and she achieved it! “What has also changed, Dr. Steinberg said, is that principals are less able to depend on parents to enforce the discipline schools mete out. "I think in the past the threat of getting in touch with a kid's parents was often enough to get a kid to start behaving," he said. "Now, kids feel parents will fight on their behalf." Well, there it is. Unless you work with today's PARENTS, you don't know. You just don't know. Between them and the teachers' unions, we have spawned some serious problems in school systems. Why would a kid behave when parents are worse than the kids? And why would teachers bother to have high standards when parents attack them? and why would teachers' unions want to do anything than what they are doing when they get away with protecting incompetent teachers who don't care about what kids learn?
I just believe that some people have to put their brain in action and acknowledge the fact that these detention centers do not help in any way.


69 posted on 11/10/2005 6:51:59 AM PST by Alexa O. (My name is Alexanders ans i do not know why it came out as Alexa)
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