Egypt Airliner CRASHED in Egypt

KINGTV News-Seattle | 1/2/2004 | ME

[longjack]

FYI:

Re: post #371 - Lastest report from "Spiegel" includes this:

Excerpt....

The Egyptian Charter Flash Airline's Boeing 737 crashed into the Red Sea on Saturday shortly after take off. None of the 148 passengers survived the accident. Regarding circumstances of the crash, the television station LCI reported that the machine had difficulty gaining altitude at take off, then lost 1500 meters altitude within 17 seconds. Finally, it dropped like a rock into the sea.

....

In the meantime, the prosecuting attorney's office in Paris has started inquiries into manslaughter. More and more details are becoming known, as well, that the Flash Airline planes didn't have the best level of safety. That's why the airline hasn't been allowed to fly into or over Switzerland since October 2002. The Swiss Federal Bureau of Civil Aviation (BAZL) had based the ban on serious deficiencies, explained spokeswoman Célestine Perissinotto on Swiss television DRS. [bold/italics print mine, lj]

According to information from a "SPIEGEL ONLINE" reader [A "Spiegel" reader sent them this info, lj] who flew on the plane in November, the Boeing didn't seem very well cared for, though. The seat backs were wobbly; everything crackled and looked almost shabby.

Apparently, the plane had been taken over from an airline company in a Spanish speaking area, because in many spots there had still been messages that could be read in Spanish. However, the crew made a competent impression, and take offs and landings ran optimally, as well.

"Spiegel-Online....Familien machen sich auf den Weg zum letzten Abschied

Translated by longjack

[longjack]

there was another post saying the airplane was in 6000 feet of water and the black box would be unrecoverable

This is from the same "Spiegel" article as the post above. This is new, also, yesterday they were saying 1000 meters (c. 3000').

....

To support the search for the flight recorders and the main body of wreckage at a depth about 150 meters, France is sending a specialty ship to the Red Sea....

"Spiegel-Online....Familien machen sich auf den Weg zum letzten Abschied

Translated by longjack

[eno_]

500 seet isn't trivial , but it isn't impossible, either. The other possibility is that the plane is almost entirely embedded in the sea floor, which would account for what was reported as a surprising lack of floating wreakage.

[longjack]

I wonder if it went in nose first?

I've read reports thus far saying the plane tried to return to the airport; that it was observed on radar turning left according to flight plan, then suddenly straightening before veering right and dropping; and now this difficulty attaining altitude (which I've seen in 2 German reports). I wonder if all these behaviors are compatible, or if they are congruent with the behavior of the rudder problem. Central Scrutiniser probably knows the answer to that

There is definitley pretty good evidence that the plane was not well maintained and was having the snot flown out of it during the holday season, but, there is always the remote possibility that a crazy took the stick and flew it into the ocean ala the other Egypt Air flight.

It doesn't seem like it exploded, though. I think there would be more wreckage if that happened.

longjack

[Central Scrutiniser]

Imagine that, once some data comes out and we start getting info, it looks like it was a crappy charter with crappy maintenance that may have caused a crash. Planes crash, all the time, without having to construct some gigantic global conspiracy around them. Its a damn shame, and may all the passengers rest in peace.

[Central Scrutiniser]

It could be rudder, the 737 300 series has had a few crashes like this due to rudder problems, and there was a near crash on an Eastwinds 737 on the east coast a few years ago that they were able to recover from. Lots of things happen in the first few minutes of flight, the pilots are busy enough, but if they had a mechanical during all this, its not suprising they didn't relay a mayday message.

[eno_]

Which facts do you mean?

The fact that PM Blair's wife and kids were due to fly out of the same airport in a few hours time?

The fact there is a manhunt on for suspected infiltrators of flight crews - like, for example, EgyptAir 900? But hey, it must be hard to find fanatical Moslem in Eqypt, so nothing to worry about, right?

The fact that both shoe bombers and explosives carried in a body cavity have been the topics of specific terror alerts in the past few days?

The fact that France is the object of large demonstrations?

The fact that "officials" were immediately quoted as saying there was "heavy fog"? How about that bizzaro phone call? Or the "plane in 6000 feet of water - CVR unrecoverable?" Noooooo, no coverup attempts... right?

But then, people with a vested interest in the sheeple NOT getting the idea that air travel security is a joke might be inclined to ignore these facts.

[Central Scrutiniser]

You are throwing a lot of spaghetti against the wall, hoping something will hit. You ignore the most glaring fact of all, planes crash, charter planes crash more often, charter planes in poor countries crash even more often. Whenever there is a crash, there are all kinds of conflicting news, usually because journalists covering crashes know very little about airplanes and tend to fill in the data or repeat anything they hear.

You are desperately hunting for a conspiracy, and I think you are unhappy that there appears not to be one...

[eno_]

When have I ever accused anyone of a "conspiracy?" I don't recall ANY poster using that word to try to convince peop;e this is probably terrorism. In fact, I have previously pointed out that successful terror and sobotage attacks are routinely covered up, and have been in conflicts throughout history.

The word is TERRORISM, not "conspiracy." It is an undeniable fact air travel is under severe threat of terrorism right now. Al Quaida is not a "conspiracy theory" they are solidly in the terrorism business.

And there is plenty to tip the odds in favor of TERRORISM in this case, including strong evidence that the Egyptian authorities engaged in crude knee-jerk attempts at coverup.

[mjaneangels@aolcom]

"Looking at the 737's crash history, there sure seem to be a lot of different subtypes for the 737."

I still do not know what those numbers stand for. I said that those were not MODEL numbers. This: http://www.boeing.com/history/boeing/737.html web page shows almost all of the Boeing model numbers. I did notice that the -900 model was not listed, but it is the newest of the 737 group.

[longjack]

The 150 meter figure came from a article in one of the German sites this morning.

I have seen other articles as describing the wreckage and recorder at depths up to 1000 meters. The Frenche ship has sonar, a mini-sub and a diver.

Here's an article that may clear some things up:

"FR"..Boats Resume Search for Bodies From Plane Crash; Switzerland Says It Banned Airline a Year Ago

There is a new thread going that talks about a massive power failure on board. Have you seen that?

longjack

[cricket]

Thanks for that little memory tour re mr.bill.

Assumoing you have archived these; but are they available somewhere on the net? Would like to jog a few memories myself :^).

[kinghorse]

Yemeni group now claims responsibility. Says it was in protest to French ban on head scarves. To use another Freeper's expression,

JUST DAMN.

Wonder how that suits the fighting french?

[truthandlife]

Wonder if U.S. intelligence already knew something was up?

http://www.voanews.com/article.cfm?objectID=3CCD176D-E95F-43CB-8C5930BD3E6B5ACC

American Travelers Urged to Avoid Yemen's Marib Province
VOA News
03 Jan 2004, 20:31 UTC


The U.S. Embassy in Yemen has issued a travel warning for Marib province due to tribal fighting.
The embassy in Sanaa issued a statement Saturday urging American travelers to avoid trips to the eastern province. It also said the embassy has canceled personal trips by embassy staff to the region.

The statement also urged Americans to contact the U.S. Embassy for other security information

In 2002, the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency carried out a missile attack in Marib province that killed a suspected al-Qaida operative and five others. CIA agents say the suspect was linked to the bombing of the USS Cole naval destroyer in the Yemeni port of Aden. 17 American sailors died in the attack.



Some information for this report provided by AFP.

[mjaneangels@aolcom]

"This site lists the 737-200, 737-300, 737-400, etc. in a box called Type, and the 737-3Q8, 737-4Q8, etc., in a box called Model."

OK. I confess. Boeing is wrong. Again.

Seriously, I built them by 600, 700 800 etc. The first number after the dash probably does indicate which series and the other numbers/letters probably indicate other configurations that may have not involved what I did.

[asb3pe]

The fact is, this could be nothing at all. It could just be your basic plane crash.

Or it might not be.

Given the lack of accurate facts, and facts of dubious veracity, we are ONLY left to ponder.

My pondering over the available "facts" as reported has led me to speculate the following (note the preponderance of the word "perhaps"):

Perhaps a hijacking took place on the plane - or perhaps the crew was already infiltrated - with the intent of crashing said plane into the Blair vacation residence. As soon as the plane deviated from its filed flight plan (the reports have the plane attempting to turn and return to Egypt, I will remind you), perhaps it was tagged by British security forces, which were CERTAINLY watching over Blair and family the whole time he was in Egypt (no need to speculate upon that fact at all). I do not know if this would even be possible, but... PERHAPS the Brits were authorized by the Egyptian government to INTERCEPT and DESTROY the rogue plane over water before it could reach the resort.

I wonder if there were any cell phone calls made from the plane. Any reports of a "Let's Roll" being uttered, perhaps? :-)

Oh I know the response I will get for such wild speculating. The thing is, I fully admit this IS just wild speculation. So much "spaghetti on the wall", as CS put it. And from a Monday Morning Armchair Quarterback to boot. Touchdown!! :-)

[RIGHT IN SEATTLE]

No