If not Bush, then who?

12-28-2003 | agitate

[Agitate]

Um, the conservative media is not the problem. The conservative media has been producing TREMENDOUS amounts of articles concerning the unease many conservatives feel with spending, immigration, etc. It's hardly a secret in conservative circles. Are you seeing a lack of threads on FR where this is being discussed? I see tons of them, and they're not all vanity threads like this one - they're based on articles from conservative media complaining about the same things you are.

The -rest- of the media is the problem. The bulk of the apathetic public just accepts the liberal line given them on CBS/ABC/NBC/CNN, and the media has gotten away with it while Democrats were the dominant party. Should the Republicans sweep in 2004, even the liberal media won't be able to get away with utterly distorting the conservative message anymore, they simply won't be able to hold onto the ratings.

Bush is co-opting those specific Leftist issues that most attract the voting public. Democrats have nothing else to stand on. He is practically -eliminating- the party of treason, that wants to hand over sovereignty to the U.N., the World Court, Kyoto, etc. If you think it's hard to swing things back to conservatism -now-, just wait till Canadian and French citizens get a vote on our tax rates and social programs.

The collapse of the Dem party isn't just a nice-to-have, it's absolutely -vital- right now. If there isn't a clear and overwhelming mandate -against- them in 2004, things will get much worse very quickly, believe me.

By the way, I believe you said that the right message will be sent if you vote for the Constitution party. Well, the Canadian conservative party split in two over the exact same kind of reasons you cite here. Look how well that's paid off for them, and look at what message it sent. They've had a massive liberal majority for over a decade, despite a solid half of their population being conservative. DON'T TURN THE U.S. INTO CANADA!

When the Dem party has been marginalized, THEN it can become time to make a stink about where the Republicans have gone wrong (and -that- will be the time for a 3rd party to rise up closer to your values). But screwing around before then is dangerous as hell. If there was a psychotic axe-wielding maniac running around in your house, I don't think you'd hesitate to call your local police even if you did think there was some corruption going on in the department. Or would you?

Qwinn



Excellent points all! And how true about Canada, an example we do not want to follow.

[MissAmericanPie]

There is no option at the voters booth anymore. Sure, there is no candidate better than Bush and look what that is saying. Do you want sell out A, or sell out B?

We are limited in the amount of punishment we can dish out to corrupt politicians, corrupt political parties. We are only able to punish the Republican Party and Republican politicians for their treason, so I'm all for applying board to side of head to wake them up to the prospect of their political extinction.

There is no issue more critical to the survival of any kind of representation of conservative American constitutional ideology than the immigration issue. The nation is precariously balanced 50/50 socialist/conservative.

The 2000 election shows how divided the nation is. That Republican politicians and the Republican Party had rather slap it's conservative base in the face by pandering to illegal voters, rather than repairing the illegal alien problem is just not acceptable on so many levels that they are too numerous to list.

They pander in vain, they are too stupid to realize it, or too evil to care as long as it promotes a globalist one world agenda. These millions of marxist will vote demonrat and forever destroy the balance between the parties in this nation. We will be condemned forever more to socialist totalitarianism. The Republicans don't seem all that concerned about the vote fraud and ballot box stuffing that came to light in the 2000 election. I find that curious.

There has been few conservatives organizing to hold Bush's feet to the fire, or any other Republican politicians feet to the fire over this devastating issue, or any other socialist issue this administration has destroyed conservatisim with.

The Republican Party has rolled the dice attempting to replace it's conservative base slowly with the growing illegal population and cross over liberals. I refuse to be part of the payoff for that kind of tretchery. I'm not going to fade slowly away, allowing them to use my vote because I have no place else to go, until they get the job done, if they can get the job done of replacing me. I choose to shake the dust from my shoes and stomp off until or unless they change course.

You hate socialisim in the demonrat party, I hate socialism where ever I find it. I have cut off relatives for being liberals, so I'm pretty intense about the issue. I consider the two ideologies at war in this nation to be the most important, critical, and defining war we are engaged in.

Bush has split the party, not me, not other upset, fed up conservatives. We have betrayed no one, we have been betrayed. Yet there has been alot of hostitility towards those who will not tow the party line, no matter what it is, and no matter how destructive.

This will be my first time to sit out an election, and my first time not to vote Republican, I don't personally know anyone who is going to vote in 2004 and I have asked around. Not voting is the only way I can figgure to send a message. Besides, if Bush gets his amnesty through congress this conversation will be moot anyway. Conservatives will never have a reason to return to the voters booth.

[inquest]

I hate to tell you this, but I don't think of free trade as a specifically left-or-right wing cause.

I didn't say it was. I'm saying that supporting the WTO, as Bush does, will do far worse damage to our sovereignty down the road than supporting the Kyoto Protocol.

Oh. So you plan on voting for Republicans locally, just not for President, right?

I personally live in a Dem district, which is likely to remain a Dem district after the election, regardless of how I vote. I haven't decided whom I'm voting for (not the incumbent, of course), because I haven't heard from any potential challengers yet. As for Congress in general, most of them have their own local races pretty well tied up. That's a part of our system that's very slow to change. The presidency is mainly where the action is.

Face it - we need a 60 man majority in the Senate AND a conservative President in the white house to nominate judges that they can approve.

Actually what's needed is a strong figure - be it the President or a leading senator - who'll assume the bully pulpit and convince large numbers of people of the problem with activist judges, and the need to do something about it. Once public pressure gets brought to bear, the politicians will fall in line.

What happens if your "ineffectual" Democrat President nominates ONLY hard-core liberal judges, and that massive Congressional majority has no -choice- but to approve them?

"No choice"? Just how are you drawing this conclusion? We're talking about someone with no mandate, telling a Republican Senate that has the sympathies of the people, that they must approve his nominees. How many languages do you think they'd flip him off in?

If you really think that the Democrats are that close to Republicans in their level of downright evil intent and scruples and corruption, I don't know that there's much hope of discussing this with you at all. Bush has made mistakes, but if you think Gore would only have been 25% worse, you're a lost cause. Gore would've been a THOUSAND times worse. I suspect your emotion is getting the better of you, and you're holding Republicans to an unreasonably higher standard due to simple anger at feeling "betrayed" - they're still FAR better than the Dems, but you're so bitter that you're in full-bore moral equivalence mode.

Well, I'm sitting here watching non-defense spending go through the roof, debt spiraling out of control, and government continuing to get larger and more intrusive all around, just like under Clinton. What really is there for me to say?

[nopardons]

You'll be sending NO message at all and most assuredly NOT the one you vainly imagined you are.

[gg188]

If nominated, I will not run. If drafted, I will not accept.

[Shooter 2.5]

Unfortunately, some people don't understand that politics is the ultimate Public Opinion Poll.

When the conservatives lose, the politicians can only believe the country wants more social programs, gun control and taxes.

I am starting to laugh when gun owners claim they won't vote for Bush because of his comments on the Assault Weapons Ban BEFORE the election. If they missed the comments, I know they didn't work to get him elected in the first place.

[MissAmericanPie]

Then don't worry about it.

[inquest]

It sends absolutely NO " message ", other than that the fringe don"t count, can't be counted on by the GOP,and will force the GOP to go farther left, to attract the " middle of the roaders ", who won't go off and vote for a third party.

History doesn't support you on that. Study it, and you'll find that when the third parties get going, the main parties get running to co-opt its issues. Every single time.

[Agitate]

NP at all...I don't want to sound like a leftist, even by accident!

[nopardons]

I don't, but you should. ;^)

AFWIW...if you stay home, you forfeit your future "grumbling rights" !

[inquest]

This will be my first time to sit out an election, and my first time not to vote Republican, I don't personally know anyone who is going to vote in 2004 and I have asked around. Not voting is the only way I can figgure to send a message. Besides, if Bush gets his amnesty through congress this conversation will be moot anyway. Conservatives will never have a reason to return to the voters booth.

Not voting sends no message whatsoever. PLEASE don't sit it out. There are alternatives, such as the Constitution Party. Now that will send a message.

And please pass that on to your acquaintances.

[nopardons]

Oh really ? Not after the BULLMOOSE Prty lost,nor when Wallace lost, nor countless other times. History IS important and you should actually study it.

[Kevin Curry]

The question should be put not to me, but to Bush: If he doesn't want my vote, whose vote does he want?

He wants to win, so he'll have to weigh the odds of winning without my vote. So far he's shown every indication that he hasn't the slightest interest in getting my vote and is convinced he doesn't need it. Rove has apparently convinced him he can only win by pandering to Medicare recipients, incumbent politicians (so-called campaign finance reform), and illegal aliens and their enablers.

Why should I waste a vote on someone who doesn't want it or think he needs it?

[PSYCHO-FREEP]

We can safely say that 99.9% of us on this forum, as well as the apolitical conservatives who felt no need to take the time to vote in the past, will get up early to stand in line at the pols in '04.

G.W. Bush will get the pull, push, punch and touch!

The few radical fringe that are determined to cut their noses off because they don't like a few freckles, are very few in number.

I predict record turn outs this election, like never before. It will be a "RED TIDE" election.

[Common Tator]

Voting for solid conservatives, on the other hand - even if we have to go to a third party to do it - proves that there are people out there who aren't afraid to show their conservative colors, that what they believe is of paramount importance. This will help galvanize conservative media into carrying its message loudly and clearly into the public debate. There is simply no more effective method of doing this than voting for solid conservatives (despite the small risks involved).

You still don't get it do you? The conservative media preaches to the choir. If Rush Limbaugh talked to anyone but the right, Bill Clinton would not have been elected president and Hillary would not be in the Senate.

The victor in every election is determined by how the center votes. The swing voters deterimine who wins. The centrists don't listen to read or follow the conservative media. Get a clue! Only conservatives follow conservative media and only the centrist swing voters can give a movement victory.

The media tries to influence how people vote. The way people vote does not influence the media.

Have you ever thought of buying a clue?

[King Prout]

my kill-vote is a dual-issue:
illegals and the assault-weapons ban.
if Dubya supports both (in a real, not rhetorical, manner) then he will not get my vote.
I sincerely doubt he would be so foolish.

[inquest]

*Ahem* "The Bull Moose platform called for the direct election of senators; women's suffrage; monopoly-control laws; minimum-wage and child-labor legislation; tariff reform; and the initiative, recall, and referendum at the federal level."

You're absolutely right. What a bunch of losers.

[Luis Gonzalez]

I was on another thread with some of these Constitution Party types, and I asked a simple question. I wanted to know how the Constitution Party would solve the current prescription medication crisis.

I even "elected" one of the Constitution Party supporters to Congress, and asked him to detail what actions he would take to deal with the issue.

I received thousands of words on what has gone wrong with the country since 1788, what evil government rains down on us, and demagoguery beyond belief.

The guy was not in Congress fifteen minutes before he began behaving just like every other politician in DC...talking about everything other than the issue at hand, avoiding the hard questions, and doing absolutely nothing.

What I never got was an answer on how the Party would fix the problem.

[nopardons]

And most of those positions were taken over by Dems...not exactly the party you implied it would " teach " a lesson to. LOL

[inquest]

Actually I was showing you the one I bought from you and here you are now disavowing it. It was you who was trumpeting the glories of the conservative media, telling us how they've taken over the AM dial and now the Internet. Now you're saying it doesn't matter? What's changed?