A Troubling Influence - An Islamic Fifth Column penetrates the White House

FrontPageMagazine ^ | 12/09/03 | Frank J Gaffney Jr.

[hchutch]

From what I have seen, Norquist doesn't seem to have done anything more for the Islamic groups mentioned than he has for other groups he's involved with.

And I would like answers to my questions in Post 296.

[Trollstomper]

"You have flat-out accused hchutch, Bob J, Byron the Aussie, and others of not answering your questions... "


Well, they haven't , for whatever reason. If you want to have a debate, then join it, stick to facts, etc., don't bait and switch -- you can do that with your own two hands.

[Poohbah]

They did answer your questions. You merely seem to dislike the answers you got.

[Trollstomper]

To save me the bother, why don't you go back over my postings, there are not too many, and add up the questions and rebuttals to previous questions of others'I have stipulated, and then match them to what you are calling the "answers." Let's see how they match up. Hint: If I say "Good Morning" and You reply "acceleration" that is not an example we would count as an answer. In court we would instruct you to "be responsive." Be serious.

[Poohbah]

In court we would instruct you to "be responsive."

What's this "we" stuff?

That's yet another troll profiling hit--troll accounts are frequently run by multiple individuals, and they sometimes screw up and let it be known that they aren't individuals.

If you don't like being profiled, quit fitting the profile.

[Trollstomper]

"We" as in normal people who argue cases rationally for a living. Once again, you throw your pretend weight around, call names, and divert, rather than take the challenge, do the assignment and actually try to debate, win, etc. Go profile yourself. I could care less.

By the way, did you really hae to run off and get your friends and your little virtual badges. Very impressive. And still you can't put together a factual argument. Hmmm.

[Sabertooth]

We like it the way it is, and we don't like pushy newbies trying to coarsen the debate.

You shouldn't worry; Trollstomper looks to have too much in the way of factual information to be a serious threat to your well-established niche.

"Enjoy your stay. It will be brief."

.. said Poohbah graciously.

[Poohbah]

"We" as in normal people who argue cases rationally for a living.

Uh-huh.

Once again, you throw your pretend weight around, call names, and divert, rather than take the challenge, do the assignment and actually try to debate, win, etc.

I haven't called you any names.

You're claiming that they didn't answer the questions: I fail to see why I must go and review your multiple replies to others, when you're the one making the initial assertion of fact.

(BTW, in the interest of not clogging the server, please press "Post Reply" only once. Also, mashing "Post Reply" multiple times is another tried-and-true troll profile hit. If you don't like the fact that you're fitting the profile, please quit fitting the profile. There's a certain etiquette here. Kindly respect it.)

By the way, did you really hae to run off and get your friends and your little virtual badges.

I pinged a few people that you've traded responses with on this thread. If you don't feel comfortable with those people possibly reading your posts, then you might wish to only use "Private Reply."

[Poohbah]

You shouldn't worry; Trollstomper looks to have too much in the way of factual information to be a serious threat to your well-established niche.

If he does have factual information, he can be a shade more polite in his presentation. But I have reason to doubt his "facts."

As for the "it will be brief" remark...I am reasonably sure that this gentleman has been here before.

[Sabertooth]

But I have reason to doubt his "facts."

Run with that for a while. Let's see your reason.

[Trollstomper]

Leaving aside "newbies," presumably an occupational pathology of yours -- I think the following is what I mean you calling names, "Your behavior fits the pattern of many trolls..."

I feel comfortable with anyone actually answering questions and making valid, factual points. Ignoring points and replying with non-sequitors is not answering. If you , or anyone else "fails to see" why questions should be answered, then that's one thing,but to at the same time call non-responsive replies "answers" is a bit ridiculous. As all can see, they are really just snipes and ankle bites.

Truly sorry about the posting, I am new to this, as you have pointed out, and when I have hit 'post' at the requisite two prompts the message has not loaded very promptly, leading me to think it wasn't being sent. Kind of like hitting the starter twice in your car. Usually not considered a 'moving violation', although it occasionally rattles cranky holier-than-though neighbors.

Now , if you don't have any other marginalia or enforcement tips, perhaps you could answer, defend, reply or otherwise subtantively engage re the Gaffney article or my earlier replies to you, your friends and others. Until you do I won't bother with you, and that way you won't have to bother with me. A club of one's own is so comfy, eh?

[Trollstomper]

Leaving aside "newbies," presumably an occupational pathology of yours -- I think the following is what I mean you calling names, "Your behavior fits the pattern of many trolls..."

I feel comfortable with anyone actually answering questions and making valid, factual points. Ignoring points and replying with non-sequitors is not answering. If you , or anyone else "fails to see" why questions should be answered, then that's one thing,but to at the same time call non-responsive replies "answers" is a bit ridiculous. As all can see, they are really just snipes and ankle bites.

Truly sorry about the posting, I am new to this, as you have pointed out, and when I have hit 'post' at the requisite two prompts the message has not loaded very promptly, leading me to think it wasn't being sent. Kind of like hitting the starter twice in your car. Usually not considered a 'moving violation', although it occasionally rattles cranky holier-than-though neighbors.

Now , if you don't have any other marginalia or enforcement tips, perhaps you could answer, defend, reply or otherwise subtantively engage re the Gaffney article or my earlier replies to you, your friends and others. Until you do I won't bother with you, and that way you won't have to bother with me. A club of one's own is so comfy, eh?

[Trollstomper]

Leaving aside "newbies," presumably an occupational pathology of yours -- I think the following is what I mean you calling names, "Your behavior fits the pattern of many trolls..."

I feel comfortable with anyone actually answering questions and making valid, factual points. Ignoring points and replying with non-sequitors is not answering. If you , or anyone else "fails to see" why questions should be answered, then that's one thing,but to at the same time call non-responsive replies "answers" is a bit ridiculous. As all can see, they are really just snipes and ankle bites.

Truly sorry about the posting, I am new to this, as you have pointed out, and when I have hit 'post' at the requisite two prompts the message has not loaded very promptly, leading me to think it wasn't being sent. Kind of like hitting the starter twice in your car. Usually not considered a 'moving violation', although it occasionally rattles cranky holier-than-though neighbors.

Now , if you don't have any other marginalia or enforcement tips, perhaps you could answer, defend, reply or otherwise subtantively engage re the Gaffney article or my earlier replies to you, your friends and others. Until you do I won't bother with you, and that way you won't have to bother with me. A club of one's own is so comfy, eh?

[philman_36]

Well, this has been a very interesting thread so far and I'm looking forward to the rest of it.
I especially liked the part about the chaplains. Who could have possibly imagined, so long ago, that there would be so many Islamic followers needing spiritual guidance in the future while being detained at Guitmo!
How fortuitous that early decision has come to be. /sarcasm

I'd really like to see this sort of exploration go all the way back to OKC and before. What names we'd see then!
Alas, it'll never be. Too much time has elapsed and Americans are no longer interested.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

...I notice you didn't answer my questions...

Hey, it was 1:00AM, here in Australia.

I'll be back to read your very interesting posts, and make a response, later today. Cheers, By

[Trollstomper]

Re would I answer your four questions from #299, rhetorical though they were:

My answer to your 4 questions is the same as yours, I assume. So, Can you accept agreement? Or does that stymie you?

Re Islam. I don't know what others have said to which you refer as "crap" -- but what Gaffney, and myself, clearly and carefully stipulate to be "Islamists" is a thing distinct from "Islam" or "Muslim," and is the accepted academic, governmental and journalistic term for politicial Islam's espousers, whether violent or not in mein and modality.

In religious terms, they are Salaffi, wahabbi, deobondi, tablighis, and related variants, as I'm sure you know.

Islamists are the enemy, or more formally, Islamists call themelves our enemy -- the West, the US, moderns, and any non-them Muslim is the enemy,and is plainly identified as such as in "the US is the main enemy of Islam." -- Bilal Phillips(look him up,he started the organized Saudi recruitment of US miitary during the first Gulf War and is an often cited figure and featured guest of many of Grover's groups).

This distinction is now increasingly well understood by policy makers, and others dealing at serious and senior levels. People, including the President and the Securty cabinet, may speak euphimistically about "Global War on Terror" but they all know what and who is meant.

It is what Rumsfeld's recently leaked memo about the war of ideas and the need to interdict at the madrassah level was all about. There are 10,000 madrassahs roughy, in each of Pak, Indo, and Malysia and a not insignificant number in India, not to mention of course Afgh. Most of these are less than 2 decades old -- n other words a massively funded rabidly grown phenom on a sharply upward curve. They are, in the main, Saudi funded, e.g., the Sauds spend more on these schools in Pak. for instance that the Pak. gvt. spends on all levels of education.

A few million more graduates a year and in a decade they will be Islam -- and then we will be at war with Islam. That is, strategically speaking, why it is so crucial to call a spade a spade here, stop wasting time with (much less legitmatig) the "wrong" Muslims and instead embrace, shore up, and work with the moderates while that is still possible.

Last, from that point of departure, I would suggest to you that the root of this contretemps with Gaffney and the national security convervaties is the above -- not personal ,political, points, jealousies, or whatever. These are serious strategic thinkers, people who understand how the world of security and threats works, and who helped to win the Cold War -- they are not gadflies or people dipping into the security realm, skimming the surface like a waterbug, making casual observations to fit one or another prejudice.

One does them, the movement and one's own argument a large disservice to think otherwise, no matter what a comfortable default that may be for some. It is a deeply flawed thesis.

Islamists are actively threatening Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines, East and Central Africa, the Balkans and Central Asia, and virtually run Pakistan as well as dominating the Muslim community's voice and institutions from Mecca and AlAzar to Finsbury Park, Marseilles to Chicago, LA and DC. It is time for strategic clarity on the matter.

[Trollstomper]

Forgot about the time diff. !

[philman_36]

What's this "we" stuff? Hmmmm...Your behavior fits the pattern of many trolls we've had show up and get banned over the years. Yes, we do profile here at Free Republic.
We like it the way it is, and we don't like pushy newbies trying to coarsen the debate.
That means you have no business whatsoever telling us what this place is, what happens here, and how we're all wrong unless we prostrate ourselves before your superior wisdom.
Same question...What's this "we" and "us" stuff?
And that last...coming from you! What a HOOT! You're the purported "well read one". Pot, meet kettle!

[philman_36]

Well, I'd like to chime in that your replies, repeated as they are, have been very informative.
Don't let "attitudes" bother you too much, new posters have to get used to the system. As an alternative try using the back button, after you've attempted to reply, right click on the post number (ie 299) and open it up in a new window. You'll have a new view of the thread and you can see if your last reply made it or not.
Thanks again for your replies. Most informative.

[Trollstomper]

Thank you. If I stay around long enough I may eventually figure out how to navigate about.