The Pain of Coping When a Job Is Snatched Away

The New York Times ^ | December 1, 2003 | JILL ANDRESKY FRASER

[N8VTXNinWV]

I'm right there with ya my fellow 'eer fan. My husband lost his job, too. For 2 years he was out of work (everything he applied for, they said that he was OVER qualified for. They would not hire him thinking that they would have to pay him too much! We didn't care what the pay was, just give us a bone!) The only thing that I could find was part time. Times were VERY tough, but we pulled through and by Gods Grace (and the constant recite of the Prayer of Jabez), we are doing great!! :o)

[RussianConservative]

Better question, where that person who write this place self? I bet at aristocracy level. What all free marketers not understand, without middle class, they themselves will die..and not in economic term but in butchered massacres...if lucky or turn into slave in some collective shahta...earth tunnel... They fools if they think that majority peoples, especially when educated, willing to live in poverty while they use nations for play grounds...they, free traders, are communist fifth column. This is all part of Communist Dialectic...with cycles of socialism and capitalism leading to their warped utopia...and idiot free trader help all way. One only look at Africa and S.America for "stability". Only stable of Latin America (except in Chile of genius Pinoche who create strong middle class) is revolution.

Free traders either active fifth columnist of communist/socialist revolution (Kennedies, Soros, Khodorkovsky, Berezovsky) or useful idiots (most free trader on FR). These last are worst. They walk through reality with shudders on to avoid sight of reality.

Is the world end...no. Is capitalism in danger...very much. Are they, free traders, the enemy...you bet. Only country that has fast INDUSTRIAL growth is Russia. Why? Because of ruble collapse, country become relient on self and no one else. Trade for industrial country only good if excess capacity and only "fair" if done with other nation of similar demographic and development. With poor country trade is in two way and always someone suffer: either industrial nation flood and indebt poor nation or poor nation use population demographic of poverty to flood industrial nation and then it peoples suffer.

Point of rant? If politicians did job of defending interests of peoples elected by, then all this not issue. But politicians of West in particular and world in general for most part either idiotic intelligencia and idolists or sleezy criminals who care only for selves.

[Ronaldus Magnus Reagan]

In fact, one of the sites in the tech villa here is being picketed because the construction company is paying 50% below standard wages. In fact, they are being investigated for paying below minimum wage. The Union crews are out doing an investigation and they have a one word answer when you ask them what they are looking for.

What do you mean by "standard wages"? Would that mean "union wages"? If so, that is price-fixing, pure, plain and simple. Let's face it, unions hate competition in the labor marketplace and they will get violent when protecting their price-fixed wages.

[EagleMamaMT]

Re post #142:

Best post of the entire thread! Bravo!

[1stFreedom]

>>Poverty is unfair but its NOT a human injustice

How is it not? Considering that we have enough wealth to share, how can it not be.

Let's flip the question. How can poverty be a human justice? How can we have so much and justly not share?

There is a place for the Govt to help the poor, but IMO, the govt only steps in because we don't -- or not to the degree required.

[RussianConservative]

Thanks.

[bvw]

That is a strange definition of integrity and honesty. No wonder those attributes are found wanting in your cupboard,

Are you a *we*? Which of all you all am I talking to now?

[riri]

Beautiful summary of free market fundamentalism

Oh my, well what do you say to that? Apparently, he believes he is one of financial elite. Hope he is ready for the pitchforks and firebombs that will be approaching his gated compound...

[riri]

Best post of the entire thread! Bravo!

Russian Conservative truly gets it.I guess it takes being in the eye of the storm rather than sitting around fat and happy with a copy of Atlas Shrugged stuck up your butt.

[EagleMamaMT]

Oh, riri, you made me spew water all over my computer screen! What a mental picture!

[Jim Cane]

How can poverty be a human justice?

An argument can be made that poverty is negative reinforcement - the wages of sin, as it were. If there were no downside, no consequences to sloth, drug dependency, foolish living, then many more people would choose the easy or low path. I'm not saying that everyone who is poor deserves to be - probably not even the majority - but surely some are poor by their own choice. And that is one way poverty can be a human justice

How can we have so much and justly not share?

Personally? I don't know. But as a society? Who decides who has to give and how much? That's the problem. If it's not voluntary, it's tyranny. When you become enlightened, you give of yourself and your blessings. When you force others to give, at the point of a gun, you rob them, not only of their time and hard earned wealth, but also of their chance/decision to become enlightened for themselves.

There is a place for the Govt to help the poor, but IMO, the govt only steps in because we don't -- or not to the degree required.

Most people are selfish pigs. Churches are empty. Malls are packed. I don't know what to tell you, but more tyranny of the majority is not the answer.

[Axenolith]

I'll buy that, considering I was making close to 25K before taxes delivering pizza in the late 80's. These people must not be very imaginative in the job aquisition department.

Also, IMO, if you're hauling down 250K\year you should be smart enough to structure your lifestyle to sock away 40K per YEAR in savings AND not have any credit card debt. It's all in planning and living within ones means.

It would help if schools could take some time spent in "diversity awareness" training and switch it to common financial education... Then again, I've got to go slop the flying pigs...

[Willie Green]

If a Mexican illegal is making $1 an hour at a maquilladora on the border, that's the MARKET RATE of the job. I think we would eliminate unemployment overnight if we got rid of the minimum wage. Poverty is unfair but its NOT a human injustice that should be addressed by the government

Your screed was rather lengthy so I only quoted a small portion.

Why did you waste so much bandwidth just to inform us that you're just another steampile who believes that it is "fair" to lower the American standard of living to the global poverty level?

[anniegetyourgun]

Agreed. Furthermore, I've never been convinced about the business acumen/savvy of a high-priced exec who is unable to see handwritting on the wall. I've changed jobs myself while still 'making nice' with the new boss, knowing full well that it would only be a matter of a year before he & I would come to loggerheads. I've also changed jobs once knowing my excellent superior was close to retirement, and I could see who his likely successor would be. Not willing to hitch my wagon to a loser after such a long streak of being with a winner, I opted out. In situations like this, an exec must always be in control of his/her career - leaving under the guise of suitable "reasons" and burning no bridges. Got to stay at least 12 months ahead of the organization AND the industry. That takes homework and lots of networking.

[Willie Green]

Comprehension skills lacking? I criticized politicians, union bosses and steel industry management, not my neighbors. By and large, they are the hapless dupes of the aforementioned.

Here you are, in reply #20, whining about your "hapless dupe" neigbors:

Keep in mind that these guys - with barely a high school education - are making around $80K per year for manual labor jobs.

Frankly, if you're dumb enough to favor massive reduction of wages and benefits paid in your region, then you deserve the boarded up stores, crappy roads, eroding tax base and declining property values that surround you.

Furthermore, you've also clearly expressed your total ignorance of the technical expertise required to operate modern steelmaking equipment.

[1stFreedom]

>>I'm not saying that everyone who is poor deserves to be...but surely some are poor by their own choice.

Agreed.

>>And that is one way poverty can be a human justice

I would say that it's a consequence of actions rather than a human justice.

>>But as a society? Who decides who has to give and how much? That's the problem.

Society decides by participating (or not) in the electorial process.

>>If it's not voluntary, it's tyranny.

No, it's not tyranny. It's democracy -- a majority of people voted for people who implemented social program. Understand that democracy isn't perfect, and that many decisions made by the majority can be negative in nature. Blame your neighbors, if you will, for who they elected.

>>When you force others to give, at the point of a gun

It's not quite at the point of a gun. But it's also not robbery. What is robbery is the lack of true fiscal discretion when spending tax dollars. There is a difference.

Say the Government reduced all non-life threatening or non-urgent social programs. Say then one's tax share would be reduced to $100 annually. Would you still call it robery? I think most people would find this figure tolerable, if not welcome.

I think the real issue centers around the question "are the tax levels just and fair." I believe that you and I would be much more comfortable with government sponsored charity if the government was disciplined in the first place. An annual tax of $100 to keep people from dying in the streets is worth it to me -- it improves my quality of life.

>> I don't know what to tell you, but more tyranny of the majority is not the answer.

Well, sometimes I think God's plan was for Kingdoms. The only problem with Kingdoms are, well, tyrants!!

However, seeing how that model is practically dead, democracy seems to be the next best thing. But we should not wear rose colored glasses. Someone said democracy is a horrible system, but 10x better than any other system out there!

[superloser]

What do you mean by "standard wages"? Would that mean "union wages"?

The Union Observer I talked to this morning (on my way into work, its on the corner) said "Regional prevailing wage" and that they calculated it by simply averaging the hourly rates the various construction companies in the area offer.

It is interesting and I will continue asking for more information. One good thing about these guys - they like to talk.

[superloser]

From talking to the Union folks, they are simply paying sub-minimum-wage.

I'm simply reporting my observations and results of chatting with the Union pickets. I haven't spoken to the foreman or any of the folks from the construction company yet. That is the next task. I don't know a lot about union rules; this part of my education in that.

If the union charge of paying sub-minimum-wage is *true* then the construction company is engaging in illegal activity just with that.

We may not agree with the law, but the law is the law. Until it is changed, well....we're stuck with it.

I absolutely agree with you that unions are screwing things up for their own membership. If a construction company is forced to start violating the law in order to work around such things, a deeper investigation is needed, and not just into activity by the construction company.

[superloser]

Very well said!!

[BureaucratusMaximus]

These people need to get their hands dirty. I would work 2 low paying jobs to make ends meet for my family. It appears that they don't want to subject themselves to work that is below their standard.

A big "hear-hear" to that. When my wife and I first got married (back in '97) a week after we got back from our honeymoon (and before I got the job I'm presently in), the place were she worked went out of business. I worked at UPS in the evening and did a 250 paper paperroute (which had me working 2am to 6am) for a year and a half. I think I made 35k that year. It can be done.