[Ex-Dem]

Let the debating begin...

[patton]

Hey archy - I like the M16. Carried one for years.

But if I were in Iraq, I would aquire an AK74S.

[Cicero]

I doubt if it means the end. Iraq is a particular environment, where most patrols can be done in vehicles. It's relatively level and open. That isn't true everywhere.

[Thane_Banquo]

Bring back the M14!

[Billthedrill]

...the firing system, which works under greater pressures created by the gases of detonating ammunition, puts more stress on moving parts, hurting its reliability.

Greater than what? It's the same ammo and the same action as its larger cousin. What are they talking about here?

[ConservativeLawyer]

Over here, guys.

[FreedomPoster]

There's just so much stupidity here, we'll just pick one example:

The M-16, at nearly 40 inches, is widely considered too long to aim quickly within the confines of a vehicle during a firefights, when reaction time is a matter of life and death.
.
.
Instead of the M-16, which also is prone to jamming in Iraq's dusty environment, M-4 carbines are now widely issued to American troops.
.
.
It (the M4) is now viewed as an interim solution until the introduction of a more advanced design known as the Objective Individual Combat Weapon, or OICW.

So the M16 is too long and bulky, so we're going to use M4s for a while, and then switch to something that's nearly as long as, and bulkier than, an M16. Riiiight.

Great idea! More of that!

Just damn.

[elmer fudd]

Well, if the M16A2 is considered too big, what about the OICW? That thing's a bohemoth with the ergonomics of a 4x4 fencepost.

Maybe it's time for a complete redesign using established technology and not a lot of Buck Rogers stuff like on the OICW. The new rifle should be modular and ergonomic like the M16, reliable like the AK, and fire a cartridge larger than the 5.56x45 but smaller than the 7.62x51. The Korean K1/K2, Swiss STGW90, German G36 and Swedish AK5 are all excellent designs to build on.

[Willie Green]

"It's a little too big for getting in and out of vehicles," said Brig. Gen. Martin Dempsey,

"I suggested to Rumsfeld that we might consider issuing
armored Segways to the troops instead of Humvees,
But he said that might be thinking TOO far outside the box."

[duk]

the old but very proven Thompson is perfect for 100 yd. or less. Shotguns with folding stocks are almost impossible to jamb or screwup. the carbine which fired 30 cal. would also be good. All of the above are short, reliable, effective and PROVEN. A good tool is never outdated!

[chudogg]

THE OICW

This will definitely be an improvement from those bulky m-16s.

[BushMeister]

Why would someone assume that the U.S. armed forces are not going to see real battlefield engagements going forward? Just because we are now primarily engaging in urban warfare, in which we are primarily responding to attacks, this will not always be the case.

M-4s, properly lubed, should get us through near-term CQB situations. As far as a "next generation" replacement, the OICW seems to be far from perfect. It is heavy, bulky, and armed with a 10" barrel firing 5.56mm that will greatly reduce range, accuracy and terminal ballistic performance. The OICW's 20mm top-exploding projectile has yet to prove its utility, particularly in urban CQB.

[Phyto Chems]

Ok guys, lets have a pic of both, so we not so "all-into-guns" will have a idea what the difference are between all of these. THANKS

[gdc61]

i've fired several hundred rounds from an AR-15 and a few thousand rounds from my own SKS' and an Mk-90 and prefer the SKS hands down.(7.62>5.56)

[Prodigal Son]

I never had any great complaints with the M16A2. It was like a light deer rifle.

[SAMWolf]

Still looks like the M-16.P

Hudson: Let's just bug out and call it even, OK?
Ripley: I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. That's the only way to be sure.

[Walkin Man]

M-16A2 http://www.army.mil/fact_files_site/m16/index.html

M-4 carbine http://www.army.mil/fact_files_site/m-4_carbine/

Objective Individual Combat Weapon http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/oicw.htm

AK-47 http://kalashnikov.guns.ru/models/ka50.html

AK-74 http://world.guns.ru/assault/as02-e.htm

M14 http://world.guns.ru/assault/as15-e.htm

M1 Garand http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/m1rifle.html

[SCARED]

i would match my hk91 against any battle rifle.

[PoorMuttly]

Barring the return of the M14, in Tanker config., how about also switching to a War-fighting military sidearm, like the 1911, or a good D.A., like Sig, but in 10mm...and a handy little 10mm Thompson...which would also make a dandy machine-pistol, for those special occasions. REAL handy, IMHO.

Bullpup nice too, as long as it shoots something worth shooting, not necessarily a zillion rounds of short barrel-impeded woodchuck stuff...so we "wound" instead of obliterate, or blow chunks off of whatever they're taking cover behind...like we did in the wars we've won so conspicuously. Ignore the college-bred geniuses and politicians, and go back to what worked...hopefully with 21st. century improvements.

[The KG9 Kid]

[Centurion2000]

Chamber the M4 into a .308 round ... perfect short range battle rifle.....