M-16 Rifle May Be on Way Out of U.S. Army

AP, Yahoo! ^ | 11-22-03 | Slobodan Lekic

[Ex-Dem]

Let the debating begin...

[patton]

Hey archy - I like the M16. Carried one for years.

But if I were in Iraq, I would aquire an AK74S.

[Cicero]

I doubt if it means the end. Iraq is a particular environment, where most patrols can be done in vehicles. It's relatively level and open. That isn't true everywhere.

[Thane_Banquo]

Bring back the M14!

[Billthedrill]

...the firing system, which works under greater pressures created by the gases of detonating ammunition, puts more stress on moving parts, hurting its reliability.

Greater than what? It's the same ammo and the same action as its larger cousin. What are they talking about here?

[ConservativeLawyer]

Over here, guys.

[Dinsdale]

Gas tap not as far down the barrel perhaps?

[Billthedrill]

Must be. I hate it when reporters do this.

[CWOJackson]

"Bring back the M14!"

Roger that!

[Noumenon]

Dunno - I'll stick with my FALs and NM Garand.

Call me old fashioned. Call the enemy out there at 400 yards dead.

[FreedomPoster]

There's just so much stupidity here, we'll just pick one example:

The M-16, at nearly 40 inches, is widely considered too long to aim quickly within the confines of a vehicle during a firefights, when reaction time is a matter of life and death.
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Instead of the M-16, which also is prone to jamming in Iraq's dusty environment, M-4 carbines are now widely issued to American troops.
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It (the M4) is now viewed as an interim solution until the introduction of a more advanced design known as the Objective Individual Combat Weapon, or OICW.

So the M16 is too long and bulky, so we're going to use M4s for a while, and then switch to something that's nearly as long as, and bulkier than, an M16. Riiiight.

Great idea! More of that!

Just damn.

[MindBender26]

the firing system, which works under greater pressures..

?????

With less barrel length, and thereby less time for gas pressure buildupm why not lower pressures????

Me thinks article author does not know XXXX from Shinola.

Had XM-177 (with bolt fwd assist) in RVN. Loved it.

[elmer fudd]

Well, if the M16A2 is considered too big, what about the OICW? That thing's a bohemoth with the ergonomics of a 4x4 fencepost.

Maybe it's time for a complete redesign using established technology and not a lot of Buck Rogers stuff like on the OICW. The new rifle should be modular and ergonomic like the M16, reliable like the AK, and fire a cartridge larger than the 5.56x45 but smaller than the 7.62x51. The Korean K1/K2, Swiss STGW90, German G36 and Swedish AK5 are all excellent designs to build on.

[Ex-Dem]

I've heard that from a lot of people actually. (That they preferred the M-14) Performance + the fact that it didn't look/feel like a plastic toy gun, I think it was.

[CWOJackson]

Although I would never treat one that way, I swear you could bury an M-14 for a week, dig it up, run an oiled patch through the barrel and it would fire.

They're reliable in all conditions and accurate.

[Billthedrill]

Garand...yeah, the Garand...you know, it's funny - I'd always heard that one of the reasons that the M-16 was preferred to the .308/30-06s was that its lower recoil was less punishing to the uninitiated, but when I finally got to fire a Garand on a regular basis I really started to question that. I consider myself pretty chicken when it comes to recoil but the Garand is a sweetheart in that respect. Maybe Patton knew what he was talking about...

[elmer fudd]

With a shorter barrel you have to place the gas port closer to the chamber where pressures are higher. I'd never heard of this being a problem before though.

The biggest problem I was aware of with the M4 is that with the shorter barrel the 5.56 round is less effective.

[CWOJackson]

Get your hands on an M-14. It's an improved Garand...you will appreciate the improvements.

[Willie Green]

"It's a little too big for getting in and out of vehicles," said Brig. Gen. Martin Dempsey,

"I suggested to Rumsfeld that we might consider issuing
armored Segways to the troops instead of Humvees,
But he said that might be thinking TOO far outside the box."

[duk]

the old but very proven Thompson is perfect for 100 yd. or less. Shotguns with folding stocks are almost impossible to jamb or screwup. the carbine which fired 30 cal. would also be good. All of the above are short, reliable, effective and PROVEN. A good tool is never outdated!