Off-duty cop kills gunman (Chicago)

Chicago Sun-Times ^

[Petruchio]

Hey Lazamataz, please refer to P's comment #50 on this thread. From a legal standpoint, the inference that he has a beef against cops is permissible.

Last Sept. I blew my trans on the expressway. 2 hours later a State trooper pulls up. His first question (in a gruff voice) is "Are you packing?" His 2nd question is "Then, where is your .357?"

First off, at 1am my interest is in getting home. My only request was for a tow truck. I do not have NRA or Militia bumper stickers on my car. I know that the police computer data bases exchange information. I know that is how he knew I was a gun owner, from the 4473's. However, he had no business in that subject area. I had given him no reason to be concerned (unless smoking a ciggerette while sitting on my trunk is a indication of future violence). 4 hours and 2 searches later I got the towtruck. That trooper was a LEO, not a Peace Officer. I told him that it was my personal opinion that he was a bigger ass than Hillary! ®

So, I guess I do have a beef with some of them, It depends on the individual in question.

[CHICAGOFARMER]

Nope...I guess you're right: I'm too dumb to get what you meant. I'll just have to muddle through the best I can.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Nope you ok. We are both on the same side of the fence.

I have to reload 15000 empty brass casings this winter from this summer shoot.

Aron Zelman Jews for Prevervation of Firearms and I spoke last week. You already know about WWII however should visit his site and see Innocents betrayed. A great summary of why firearms owned by citizens are important.

But I do have a thorn in my side when only police can have firearms either on duty or off duty. NOPE NOTA NO. If they carry I carry. period end of paragraph. That is my line and should be your line.

I see or think I read that you are a New York city poster, well I am in IL and it is one of five states that does not have CCW. I know about NYC and 2000 permits.

Listen we the government is setting up two tier system, the elite and the subjects.

Never never give up your guns until they are empty and they have beaten you to death.

I too once thought it was better for LEO to carry CCW. But then I saw the light (friend Angel Shamaya) set me straight.

http://www.keepandbearms.com

Check it out.

Peace

Shoulder to Shoulder

Keep the faith.


Here are a few good lines for your gun.

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Anti-gunner says, someday someone may kill you with your own gun.
Here is how to apply your new found knowledge.
You say: Yes, It will be empty and they will have beaten me to death.

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Every day, 550 rapes, 1,100 murders, and 5,200 other violent crimes are prevented just by showing a gun, In less than 1% of the time is the gun ever actually fired. National Crime Victimization Survey, 2000 Bureau of Justice Statistics, BATF

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Any person who tries to disarm a honest citizen is a criminal.

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Isn’t it great to be free?
Isn’t it great to be stupid?

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A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
-- Sigmund Freud, General Introduction to Psychoanlysis (1952)

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A man walking into a 7-11, brandishing a weapon and demanding everyone lie face-down on the floor, and then robbing and/or killing said people isn't a conflict, it's a crime.

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CCW is about being prepared for when things become very uncivilized. When you try your conflict-resolution skills on the guy who breaks in into your home or attacks you on the street, to get his fix, see how far conflict-resolution gets you.

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Guns are often used to commit violent crimes. Fact 90% of all violent crimes in the U.S. do not involve firearms of any type. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. 1998

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Self-Defense is a Basic Human Right

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Myth: Stricter gun control laws could have prevented the Columbine massacre.
Fact. Harris and Klebold violated close to 20 firearms laws in obtaining weapons. Would 21 laws really have made a difference?

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"There is nothing so powerful as truth." - Daniel Webster

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Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence (formerly Handgun, Inc.) was hit so hard by the slowing economy and funds diverted to terror victims that the vocal organization has laid off 14 staffers, a full 20 percent of its workforce. The National Association of Chiefs of Police issued their 14th annual survey on Monday. Over 93 percent said yes to "Should any law abiding citizen be able to purchase a firearm for sport or self-defense?" Over 62 percent said concealed handgun permits would help reduce crime. This caused exactly zero waves on the political or media landscape

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If you don't understand weapons you don't understand fighting. If you don't understand fighting you don't understand war. If you don't understand war you don't understand history. And if you don't understand history you might as well live with your head in a sack.
~ Colonel Jeff Cooper

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Post your answers here. Here's my answer:
Registered: "Does a fire set itself?"
Me: "In a world where guns kill people, SUVs run over teens, and vertical stabilizers fall off airplanes on their own? Yes."

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Who gives a rats a$$ what the polls say?
IF the principle is right, true and honest, full speed ahead.

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To those who say or quote the anti gunners spin. I say, the more you post this crap the more the weak minded souls who read this crap think that we are doing the wrong thing. If you think this is true then tell the truth, don't echo some weak-minded anti gun bastard. If you do you are as weak as they are.

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Gun Controllers impact on American civil rights
are as deadly as the A.I.D.S. virus is to health!

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* Supreme Court admits "the people" in the Second Amendment are the same "people" as in the rest of the Bill of Rights -- In U.S. v. Verdugo-Urquidez the Court stated that "'the people' seems to have been

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"911 - Government sponsored Dial-a-Prayer."
Bob Mueller - www.OhioCCW.org - Ohioans For Concealed Carry

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"There is always hope, only because its the one thing nobody
has figured out how to kill, yet...!" - Crusade's Galan

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"Dialing 911 takes seconds, waiting for help can take the
rest of your life. - Oleg. MA 2000.

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"Sometimes a person has to exercise personal judgement and take
the chance of being mistaken, or stop calling himself or herself
free." -POUL ANDERSON "DIAL 1911-A1 !"

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Do firearms carry laws result in chaos? No. Consider the case of Florida. A citizen in the Sunshine State is almost twice as likely to be attacked by an alligator than to be assaulted by a concealed carry holder. During the first ten years that the Florida law was in effect, alligator attacks outpaced the number of crimes committed by carry holders by a 146 to 88 margin.21

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When a anti gunner says: I don’t think we have all the answers
You say: I don’t think you have any of the answers.

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The social cost of gun violence is $20-100 billion.
If the same methodology were used t ocalculate the social savings from private gun ownership, we would see a benefit to society of $500 Billion dollars

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"The No. 1 killer of children and teens isn't drugs, smoking, suicides or gun violence.

"It's sitting in your driveway...

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When they say you are a gun nut. Say you are a conservative catholic and resent the attack on your religion.
The idea is to defuse the listeners around the discussion with humor.

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Leftist filmmaker Michael Moore, in the process of finishing an anti-gun documentary, made this dramatic statement that probably expresses the feelings of many at his end of the political spectrum:
"This started out as a documentary on gun violence in America, but the largest mass murder in our history was just committed -- without the use of a single gun! Not a single bullet fired! . . . I can't stop thinking about this. A thousand gun control laws would not have prevented this massacre. What am I doing.

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"Good order is the foundation of all things." --Edmund Burke {}

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"Delay is preferable to error." --Thomas Jefferson {}
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." --John Adams {}

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"A sword never kills anybody; it's a tool in the killer's hand." --Seneca (the Younger) {}

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"Where there is a lack of honor in government, the morals of the whole people are poisoned." --Herbert Hoover {}

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"It's a poor rule that won't work both ways." --Frederick Douglass

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New Orleans police spokesman Capt. Marlon Defillo in Friday night's and Saturday morning's five slayings, there's was one glaring commonality that got no mention. I'd bet that each of these murders was committed with an unlicensed and illegal firearm. It is not the honest citizen causing the problem.

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There are not enough police to protect everyone. Currently, there are about 150,000 police officers on duty at any one time, per U.S Justice Department 1998. 450,000 TOTAL.

This is on-duty police. This included desk clerks, command sergeants, etc. far fewer than 150,000 cops are crusing your neighborhood. With approximately 271,933,702 people living in the U.S resulting in only ONE on-duty cop for every 1,813 citizens.

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It was President John F. Kennedy who said, "Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom."

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The Second Amendment was not intended to guarantee my bird hunting, or for states to maintain militias. It was, and is, as even Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe (liberal icon) acknowledges, an INDIVIDUAL RIGHT.

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Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

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[Petruchio]

If I lived in Texas and this happened, I would have offered to pay for the ammo he used. Not here. Clickie the Linkie CAGE UNIT.

[1rudeboy]

I have no response. Nor do I wish to get into an argument about probable cause. As a citizen of the State of Illinois, you are entitled to refuse a "general" search. That's all I can say. I wish you the best.

[MileHi]

What a schmuck. But make your arguments, counseler.

[MileHi]

So it would be OK with you if you died in the same case because you ain't a cop?

Rage on cat $hit, some one will cover you...

[Petruchio]

Another Linkie to lots of links.

Even in Texas you need to worry about Chicago's mayor and his thugs.

[Petruchio]

I wish you the best as well.

[El Gato]

Even in Texas you need to worry about Chicago's mayor and his thugs.

Let him send his CAGE unit down here to Texas, and we'll see about that. They'll be met at the border, or at the airport, by uniformed members of various county sherriffs departments, as well as many DPS troopers, and local police as well. That's if they are lucky. The peace officers will be there to turn them around, and to protect them from the citizens of Texas, who don't take kindly to to such shiite,(As her Highness Queen Ann, the governor before George W., found out to her everlasting regret) especially from some Yankee cops way the hell out of their jurisdiciton. I'd be one of those citizens the local POs whould be protecting them from...and they'd better send several Texas Rangers as well, as there would likely be multiple riots to contend with. :)

Apparently Hizzoner doesn't even want Chicago cops to have any guns that aren't department issue. From Illinois State Rifle Association, "Chicago Police Officers Warned About Possible Gun Sweeps" Wherein it is reported that the CAGE unit is going after privately owned "assault weapons" posseses by CPD and Cook County Sherrif's department employees, including uniformed officers.

[El Gato]

From the Belly of the Beast (BATFE) itself, it seems that the BATFE is a member of the CAGE joint task force.

The Chicago region has major unilateral crime gun enforcement operations conducted by, ATF, CPD (Chicago Police Department) and ISP (Illinois State Police). The Chicago Anti-Gun Enforcement (CAGE) Task Force is an ATF/CPD initiative to stem the flow of illegal firearms into the City of Chicago. CAGE pursues criminal leads that are generated by CPD and ATF.

The article is a about a then (March '01) new BATF Chicago Regional and how it will "Develop the ability to receive requests for information, query databases not available to agencies making the requests, and report the findings to the requestor."

Thus the hard earned dollars of taxpayers everywhere in the country are being used to violate the rights of Chicago area citizens. The federal government is supposed to be protecting rights, and guaranteeing a republican form of government to the states. (A (little 'r') republican form of government is a representative one of limited and defined powers.) They are not supposed to violating rights nor aiding and abetting petty tyrants like Hizzoner, in violating their RKBA, which their (BATFE) current boss, Attorney General Ashcroft, says is individual right. Now I'm now just PO'd, my a$$ is chapped, and you don't want to be around a Texan, even a naturalized one, with a chapped a$$. Native born Texicans with the afflication are even worse, I assure you.

Disband BATFE, NOW! Yesterday wouldn't be soon enough.

A random thought relevant to the thread, sort of, is that Iraqies, under US occupation have more RKBA than the citizens of Chicago. Now that is sad, and it also "Chaps my A$$". See above.

Here's another link from the belly of the CAGE beast, showing just how they "get around" all the laws about not maintaining a registration list.

[Pharmboy]

Yes--I can understand your points when you're more direct. We ARE on the same side.

My favorite bumper sticker: "Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than all my guns"

[Petruchio]

Read my post # 141. Maybe now folks might understand why I call for the Chicago cop to be charged as I would have been.

[Abe Froman]

Could you please explain why it should be OK for a cop (when off-duty, in his life as a civilian) to protect his life when the rest of us may not? The first step to removing unjust laws is to make sure they are applied equally unjustly to all. The laws in Chicago prohibiting self-defense are not only unfair as written, but this is compounded by the unequal application of the law, creating a class of citizens (cops) that are in favor of the law because it doesn't apply to them.

[em2vn]

Basing an argument on envy is a poor technique. It may not be fair that a cop was able to save his life by carrying a sidearm. That being the case, I am not going to advocate that the officer should be prosecuted any more than I would advocate that any citizen in a similiar circumstance be prosecuted.
I question if you are certain that a law enforcement officer may only carry a piece, off duty, when traveling to and from the job in your state. I live across the river from you,down state. Our cops are considered to be on the clock at all times. They carry around the clock. I feel comfortable knowing that local, county and state carry off duty. I am hoping to be able to carry as well when the state appeal is worked out.

[viaveritasvita]

I want to see what reaction it will trigger.

FYI, altho you must know: Using Orwell's "pig" reference in connection with a discussion about police officers will trigger a negative reaction.

...those in our society that are working towards a 2 class society...promoting a ruling class over the rest....

Working towards? Promoting? You may want to sit down 'cuz this will come as a shock. There's a ruling class in every corner of the world! Granted, America has the best version of the governance of the ruling class (altho there's a good argument to be made that we are losing this version fast), but we most definitely have one.

I understand your concern about the police state. But I agreed with MinuteGal that this story may not even apply; and the police officer may deserve the benefit of the doubt.

My first, and as of right now, only thought about this article is similar to Rooster's: Hooray for this police officer -- I was glad HE wasn't hurt! One less thief on the streets. I realize there are police officers who should be ashamed to call themselves protectors of the citizenry, but most police officers would have my support if they wanted to be protectors after hours (mainly because I see them as citizens who have the right to arm themselves after hours)!

Altho I'm still not clear on this, it appears that in Chicago citizens do not have the right to arm themselves in direct violation of the 2nd Amendment, but that off-duty police officers do (or some of them arm themselves in violation of some stoopid law that appears to contradict the 2nd Amendment??).

It was somewhat of a relief to hear Pet say (to Rooster, I believe) that he would offer to pay for this officer's ammo (if he lived in TX).

All I can say is thank God I don't live in IL!!

<><

[Abe Froman]

I don't live in Illinois. I live in MN.

I am suprised that a Freeper would reduce the desire for equal protection under the law to basic envy. That doesn't say much for every other cause we might fight for. Are we merely "envious" that less wealthy people pay a smaller percentage in taxes? Are we simply being jealous when less qualified minorities are hired or benefitted by government-mandated affirmative action policies?

Accusing those desiring to be treated equally under the law of envy smacks of elitism and condescension.

[OXENinFLA]

This is one reason way I live in FL now.

I use to live in Kankakee.

[Abe Froman]

By the way, I am decidedly UNcomfortable that a certain class of citizens that are treated more favorably under the law than me are allowed to carry their weapons around. Frankly, in addition to giving them large egos and making them arrogant, it now helps to ensure that if they abuse their authority they won't be punished. In short, it creates a police state where the "people fear the government" as opposed to the other way around (re: Thomas Jefferson).

[Abe Froman]

By the way, I am decidedly UNcomfortable that a certain class of citizens that are treated more favorably under the law than me are allowed to carry their weapons around. Frankly, in addition to giving them large egos and making them arrogant, it now helps to ensure that if they abuse their authority they won't be punished. In short, it creates a police state where the "people fear the government" as opposed to the other way around (re: Thomas Jefferson).

[rpd35]

hate to bust your bubble but florida doesnt even allow reciprocity. concealed carry is a joke the polititions played on the unsuspecting masses.
1) must be carried in a hip grip or similar holster
2) only between the armpit and waistline
3) not to a "public gathering"- vague? you bet!

pig? no name calling please.