Life's lucky 'kick start'

BBC News ^ | October 13, 2003 | Dr David Whitehouse

[Right Wing Professor]

Then I'm Napolean. Glad to meet you.

Hi Napolean. Are you named after the famous emperor?

Now who's being unpersuasive.

A large number of Christians accept the Pope's word on issues like this as definitive.

[js1138]

Yes, well I have a crappy keyboard that drops characters and willfully misspells words. It's someone else's fault. I wasn't there. You can't prove it. ;^)

[Modernman]

You have faith that the bible is true, therefore you feel comfortable in saying what you are saying, and that's great, but remember, you are basing your entire premise on faith, whereas science bases it on evidence.

Nail, head etc.

I have no problems believing in God and, at the same time, accepting the theory of evolution. I have no need to prove the existence of God to anyone- I accept it on faith. I do have a need to see evidence before I accept a scientific theory, and I haven't seen anything with better evidence to explain how we got here than the theory of evolution.

[Modernman]

However, I will say the "science" of evolution is VERY full of holes

Ahh, but creationists aren't generally attacking the science behind evolution because they believe in vigorous peer review- they're attacking evolution based on ideology. Big difference.

[asformeandformyhouse]

A large number of Christians accept the Pope's word on issues like this as definitive

Then it must be so.

I hope you'd agree that if we continue along this most recent line of discussion, then we should move into the 'religion' forum.

[whattajoke]

none of these other faiths are as attacked as Christianity these days.

another modern martyr. You live in Florida, you have nothing to worry about. Your Christian faith is fine, I can guarantee that. Our president is a born again christian. You're safe.

I think the Jewish faith is attacked in certain areas just as much as your Catholicism. It's all relative, keep that in mind.

[Modernman]

At least two Popes have declared that the theory of evolution is not in conflict with Christian teaching.

Well, many Creationists don't count Catholics as Christians.

[pgyanke]

You forgot to demand it in triplicate...

Roman Religion

The indigenous Italic religion, which was the nucleus of the religion of ancient Rome, was essentially animistic. It depended on the belief that forces or spirits, called numina (sing., numen), existed in natural objects and controlled human destiny.

In the beginning of the historical period, when Italy was dotted with small agricultural communities, the family and the household were the basic religious units. Everything vital to the continuance of human life had its numen and appropriate rite. For the perpetuity of the family, the Italian farmer made offerings to the genius of the family. For the safety of the household he worshiped Vesta, the guardian spirit of the hearth fire; the lares and penates, guardians of the house; and Janus, guardian of the door. To protect the boundaries of his property he honored Terminus. To insure an abundant harvest he held various festivals throughout the year. To placate the spirits of the dead he made offerings to the lemures, to the manes, and to the deities of the underworld. In performing these religious ceremonies the head of the family acted as the priest and was assisted by his sons and daughters.

When these families coalesced into tribes and then a state, the family cult and ritual formed the basis of the state cult and ritual. Vesta had a community hearth, the penates a community storeroom, Janus a holy door in the Forum. Rome, which was theoretically one family, was ruled by its king, who as such was head of the family and chief priest. The king was assisted in his duties by his “sons and daughters,” the colleges of priests and priestesses. They elaborated and recorded the rituals necessary for the propitiation of the gods and regulated the state ceremonies and the ceremonial calendar. The official clergy included the pontifex maximus, the rex sacrorum [king of the sacred rites], the pontifices, the flamens (see flamen), and the vestal virgins.

Source: The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition. 2001.

I don't have time to be chasing the rest of your demands for quick citations. I have a background in this area... you wish me to disavow this background and seek someone else's. This is enough of an excerpt for you to understand the truth. The gods, as "worshiped" by these ancient societies, were a source of national pride but not the object of divine help.

[pgyanke]

I think the Jewish faith is attacked in certain areas just as much as your Catholicism.

I lump Judeo-Christianity together in its persecution. One came from the other.

[Ogmios]

To a creationist, no one that is not a creationist is a christian. It takes about 95% of the adherents of christianity as fakers of some sort.

This is their main problem, their arrogance is unreal.

[Alamo-Girl]

LOLOL! I try to use the Arial font when I know I'm going to be coming back to the thread. I messed up...

[pgyanke]

I agree it's not the GOAL of science. It is the goal of many of the people who pay for the studies, though (see post #145).

[pgyanke]

Ahh, but creationists aren't generally attacking the science behind evolution because they believe in vigorous peer review- they're attacking evolution based on ideology. Big difference.

Not so (at least not the ones I know). We take issue with calling something "settled" by science when the method to arrive at the conclusion is specious, at best. If someone can provide a theory of evolution without the holes and "leaps of faith", I think you will find creationists accomodating to find out what it means spiritually.

Until then, though, we're not accepting the conclusions of junk science.

[Ogmios]

The goal of the people that pay for the studies is profit, money, cash, moula, greenbacks.

That is the only goal of the people that finance scientific studies, besides government of course, who does it because it is for the "good of the people".

The only science that I have seen with any sort of agenda are creationist scientists, oxymoron, and ID proponents, neither of which I consider science.

[pgyanke]

Oh, and go do your own leg work. You want to disprove me, do it. Do you have a background in this area? On what basis do you take issue?

[CobaltBlue]

Your source doesn't substantiate your allegation that the Greeks and Romans did not worship the gods and goddesses. Sorry.

What it does point out is that the Greeks and Romans did have other religious deities, not just Zeus/Jove, etc., but we already knew that. What was the crime of Alcebiades?

[Ogmios]

Creationists/Accomodating? Sorry, that is an oxymoron as well.

Creationists are not accomodating, evidence and science mean nothing to them. They are the most nonaccomodating people in existence. Their minds are closed, therefore they cannot be accomodating.

The 2 words are opposites.

[pgyanke]

The only science that I have seen with any sort of agenda are creationist scientists, oxymoron, and ID proponents, neither of which I consider science.

You succeeded... I'm speechless.

[js1138]

The gods, as "worshiped" by these ancient societies, were a source of national pride but not the object of divine help.

They were also a major source of income. I suspect the educated of every time and place have been skeptical of dial-a-god, the idea that prayers would literally be answered by divine intervention. (I have no proof that this never happens, but I haven't seen anything to make me believe it.)

[pgyanke]

Creationists are not accomodating, evidence and science mean nothing to them. They are the most nonaccomodating people in existence. Their minds are closed, therefore they cannot be accomodating.

OUR minds are closed? I sense projection...