Posted on 02/12/2016 4:17:11 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
Congress' will in this mater can be found in U.S.C. Title 8 Section 1401...
Thanks for proving that Cruz was an alien in need of being naturalized via statute, even though that was obviously not your intent.
Section 1101. Definitions
(3) The term "alien" means any person not a citizen or national of the United States.
(23) The term "naturalization" means the conferring of nationality of a state upon a person after birth, by any means whatsoever.
So, please, continue citing the Immigration and Nationality Act (U.S.C. Title 8) as the means through which Cruz obtained his citizenship. You make it too easy.
- who is a citizen at birth (naturally born)
- who can apply for naturalization
- who can never be naturalized
- what is the process for naturalization
etc
The INA doesn't confer nationality to those who are already US citizens, does it?
So someone who is already a US citizen doesn't need USC 8 to be made a US citizen, right?
For me it boils down to a personal decision, am I okay voting for someone who was born in Canada for president, also considering that his mom was American?
The answer for me is yes. I’m okay with it. Other things Cruz has done has angered me, but being born in Canada isn’t one of them.
Other people don’t seem to be okay with it, and to be honest I don’t know what some court might eventually do with it, though I suspect nothing will ever come of it.
It is certainly possible that the issue does create doubt in some people’s minds however. And some others are basically are of the mind that the Constitution says X, and that’s that.
“You are aware that the Constitution does NOT vest the authority for the determination of the rules of naturalization SCOTUS, right? That authority is specifically enumerated to Congress.”
Right. Because the U.S. Constitution specifically prohibits issues relating to naturalization from being ruled on by SCOTUS,unlike everything else in the U.S. Constitution.
Agreed.
And a NBC shouldn’t have to give up his citizenship from birth to run for president. Ted felt that was necessary.
He was born an alien citizen before Congress dubbed him American.
Ted was on Canadian soil with a Canadian BC. He needed no passport. He was a citizen of Canada for 40 plus years...
If he went to Canada five years ago, and If we wanted to remove him from Canada for some crime, both American and Canadian judges would have to us to take a hike... that he’s Canadian.
... and this is where Trump’s own words reveal a profound lack of principles.
If he really believes Cruz is ineligible, it wouldn’t matter if Cruz was nicer to him, or stopped running negative ads. An ineligible candidate should not be allowed to seek the Presidency. If he really believed that Cruz was ineligible, he’d have an obligation to do something on principle, and he’d file the suit.
But of course, Trump doesn’t actually believe that Cruz is ineligible. He’s just willing to say that, and threaten a lawsuit, for political gain.
I for one have too much respect for the Constitution to see it used as a political battering ram. That’s why I don’t have any respect for Trump, that is willing to do that.
He was also remained a Canadian citizen until he decided to run for president.
Article 2, Section 1, of the Constitution is meaningless now. And....Judges have learned that they can club dissenting citizens with “no standing”.
Where it goes from there is really just wild speculation. Courts and Congress don't enforce the NBC clause anyway, so there is a reasonable chance that another ineligible person will run and perhaps be elected to the office. If I'm Cruz, and I know I am ineligible, and I want the office, and I believe nobody is going to enforce the requirement, then it makes sense to run for the office. What the constitution and court precedents say on the matter being irrelevant, and what the powers that be have to say about it (so far, they agree he is eligible) being the "controlling legal authority."
From Trump's point of view, if he wins against the other candidates, it doesn't matter one whit if they are eligible or not. Questions about eligibility, like questions about public and foreign policy, are part of the political process.
In order to keep the candidacy in play, it is essential that the public view Cruz's eligibility as either settled in his favor, or at worst unsettled. If you are Cruz, you must argue to the public that the issue is settled in your favor, regardless.
You are aware that YOU obtained your citizenship through the same Title 8 right? See subsection A
You missed my point.
I was not saying that SCOTUS can’t rule. Rather I was pointing out that it is an enumerated power of Congress. As such, it is Congress that MAKES the rules and as of yet, there has been direct rule making about NBC. There has been indirect rule making by defining who is a citizen at birth.
Yes SCOTUS can make a determination if those rules are within the framework of the Constitution. However, SCOTUS has been very reluctant to rule on limiting a specifically enumerated power given to Congress. Witness the power of Congress with regards to bankruptcies. The courts have been very limited in their rulings.
Until a specific congressional rule is made by Congress about NBC, it comes down to this question:
Is a person who, by the circumstances of their birth a citizen at birth and not needing to be naturalized by the rules established by Congress, automatically a natural born citizen?
No I didn't receive my citizenship through an Act of Congress. I was never an alien in need of naturalization. I was born of citizen parents who have been in America from the early 1600's (Father's side) and early 1800's (Mother's side).
Congress can only pass naturalization laws and those laws only apply to aliens. What do you not understand about that simple fact?
It is called the Immigration and Nationality Act for a reason. Citizens are already here, they're not immigrants.
And you make the point in this statement!
What you haven't specified is the parent's citizenship status. Their status directly affects whether or not the child needs naturalization.
One alien parent mandates the child needs naturalization.
I've yet to see evidence of even that. All I've seen is a Canadian birth certificate.
And what happens if I was born before June 27, 1952 when the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 was enacted?
From whence, in your opinion, would my citizenship derive?
From the prior Naturalization acts. The first Congress passed the first naturalization act in 1790.
Not according to congress. Congress has specifically stated that one US citizen parent confers citizenship at birth regardless of location.
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