Posted on 10/01/2002 11:14:10 PM PDT by scripter
Except an teensy, tiny ounce of morality and concern for the well-being of children...
I've got no problem with asking Amazon to stop. I've got no problem with boycotts. That works for me. Where I've got a major problem is the threat of lawsuits to force Amazon to stop selling the book. That, to me, is akin to holding a gun to their head, and that, to me, is just plain wrong.
Mein Kampf aside (one would have to get into specifics of that book), if someone wrote books promoting the annihilation of a particular race of people, like African-Americans, you know in a minute that Nambalazon would not (rightfully) sell such (and there would be an immediate uproar in our society). Or if someone wrote a book supporting the idea that all homosexuals should be elimnated, the same would (rightfully) ensue. But when it's the promotion of child rape, I guess it's a different story. Kids are used and abused, sexually and otherwise, in today's society. And we don't have the cojones to fight against such by every means available. Shame on us. And shame on virtual child molestor Jeff NAMBLA Bezos.
If you agree that what Amazon's doing is a moral atrocity, why is is 'wrong' to use any existing law to get it to stop? We should use every legal available means to get Namblazon to stop aiding and abetting the promotion of child rape.
So, by your definition, in carrying "Mein Kampf," they support the aims and goals of Adolph Hitler; by carrying "The Communist Manifesto," they support the goals and tenants of communism; by carrying Anton LaVey's "Satanic Bible," they support Satanism; by carrying Andrew Vachss' books, they support the elimination of child prostitution, slavery and rape; by carrying various translations of the Bible, they support Christianity; by carrying books on sorcerery, they support witchcraft; by carrying books about white supremacy, they support racism; by carrying Ann Coulter's "Slander," they support conservatism; by carrying Michael Moore's "Stupid White Men," they support liberalism...
Sounds pretty damned schizophrenic, if you ask me...
Point is, that simply because they carry a book, they are not giving endorsement of what they carry - if you are going to blame them in that regard, then why not go the full distance, and have them pull every single title that you disagree with morally?
I must note, here, for the purposes of discussion that amazon.com also sells the infamous "Turner Diaries". Usually ships in 24 hours. No discount, though. I'm sure it's not the only revolting racist screed they sell. I guess, in addition to being a child molester, Jeff Bezos is also a Nazi?
You and I disagree on how to handle Amazon's supposed complicity. Asking them to stop and holding a legal gun to their head are two different things.
That's a fair question, mhking. Yes, one does have to draw the line somewhere. And we live in a society where there is great disagreement on moral questions. But when something is so blatantly immoral, and may well actually lead to the increased sexual rape of children, that crosses my line - and a great many others' as well. Just like a book calling for the elimination of Jews, homosexuals or blacks would cross most people's lines (and, as I said, which I doubt Namblazon would sell). You object to the idea that society should have ANY generally agreed upon moral lines that should come into play in a situation like this. I do not. If but one kid is sexually molested by an adult as a result of this (not unlikely, given past evidence in these matters), the agony of that kid will rest on Bezos' head. Society, children and people with these disordered inclinations to rape children would ALL be better off without the sale of this book. Too bad that Jeff NAMBLA Bezos won't take a stand here. His moral line, if this doesn't cross it, is non-existant.
First, you can't put "Mein Kampf" aside, but even if you do, "The Turner Diaries" is there, at Amazon, for anyone to purchase. Last I checked, that book supports the elimination of ALL blacks.
Now. If Amazon is asked to remove this dreck, and refuses, then the next step is a boycott - not a lawsuit to force them not to do business with someone.
Any legal means is fair and square to confront a moral atrocity.
The difference, in my mind, is promotion. The author and publisher are promoting the book. They are actively advertising the book. They are actively seeking people to purchase said book. In that regard, Amazon is no more complicit than the postal service. They are merely the conduit, the messenger, not the originators of the message.
What legal grounds is there for a lawsuit?
Law abiding citizens who want to purchase or carry firearms are treated like "Future Criminals Of America" while pedophilia pushers are protected.
Makes-Me-Sick
Worth repeating...
None, and thats why these types of freepers resort to silly boycotts of publishers or television shows - whatever has struck their fancy this week.
The version of "Free Speech" they speak of is odd to me. They claim everyone has a right, which is fine. They claim that the right does not include the right to a "forum" or to force someone to publish their work. I agree, and that's fine. But, what they try to do is petition every possible distribution source to get them to deny publication or whatnot. They go after sponsors, web hosting services and even try to get zoning boards to stop the production altogether. Kind of scary sometimes if you ask me. Its kind of like, "Yeh, you have the right, but we will try everything possible to make it impossible for you to excercise your right".
They do. It’s called the Turner Diaries. The author, Andrew McDonald is the nom de plume of William Pierce, former head of the National Alliance, the most organized Neo-Nazi group in the United States.
But when something is so blatantly immoral, and may well actually lead to the increased sexual rape of children, that crosses my line - and a great many others' as well. Just like a book calling for the elimination of Jews, homosexuals or blacks would cross most people's lines (and, as I said, which I doubt Namblazon would sell).
If the author’s book makes a political argument, it is perfectly legal to sell. If the author openly suggests the commission of crimes by the reader, that’s another. If you don’t want Amazon to carry the book you have every right to boycott them. Good luck. Amazon knows they will lose a lot more business if they decide NOT to carry such material.
I personally find censorship deplorable.
Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master
-Sid Meyer
I'm not a lawyer - but any law that could apply should be used.
There's no censorship in this case. The author would retain his right to write or say whatever he wants. There's absolutely no right to have someone sell your book. And if you think there are more people who wish to read The Turner Diaries than are puking over Namblazon's decision here - I think you may be wrong! I can reach easily about 1,000 people in churches here - and who will refuse to go to Namblazon for books. A lot of others will be doing the same. Jeff NAMBLA Bezos is contributing to the rape of children. Society should puke.
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