Ergun Caner: Islam is not a Peaceful Religion {Former Muslim}

Ergun is the oldest son of a Muslim mwazien. The mwazien is similar to a preacher. In 1982 when he was 16 years old, he attended a revival service in Columbus, Ohio, at the invitation of a high school friend and accepted Christ. Ergun started attending church on Monday, accepted Christ on a Thursday -- and had his first piece of ham at a Youth Afterglow activity days later.

When Ergun attended the mosque the next day, his youth group of Shiite Muslims "beat the tar out of me," he says. Ergun's parents were separated at the time (prior to a divorce), and when his father found out about his salvation, he confronted Ergun. When Ergun refused to repudiate his faith in Christ, his father disowned him -- by facing Mecca and praying a prayer of abandonment because it was embarrassing that his oldest son would accept Christ. Sadly this effectively ended their relationship. Ergun didn't see his father for 17 years, until three days before his dad's death in 1999.

Ergun's Swedish mother met and married a Turkish man . They relocated to the U.S .where the younger brothers were born. Ergun says he was called to preach one year after salvation (he began college at 16), becoming a pastor at age 17 to a small country church in Manchester, Kentucky.

He says it was a mystery to him that God would call him because at the time, Ergun didn't speak English very well and didn't fully understand the Scriptures. He felt that he was all alone because neither his mother, nor his grandmother, were Christians. But he gladly accepted the call, and led his brothers to Christ the same week of his salvation.

As the son of a mwazein, Ergun had to learn the hadith (the sayings and traditions of Muhammed, the Prophet of Islam) in the Qur'an. In these teachings, Ergun says the central thesis of Islam does in fact have an essential tenet of militaristic conquest at its heart. The infidel, or unbeliever, must be converted or conquered. If the Muslim dies in such a struggle or declaration of war (jihad), he is promised immediate translation into the highest level of paradise. Therefore, when pressed most Muslims would say that Mohamed Ata is in heaven according to the Qur'anic teaching.

The Qur'an, supposedly from the mouth of Allah, takes a dim view of the non-believer and a strict view of jihad as a warfare against them. In Surah 2:190, Allah says, "Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you. And slay them wherever you catch them." Physical warfare is an absolute necessity so that Allah is honored and worshipped. Jihad is one of the highest calls of life for a Muslim. "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and those who strive hard and fight in the cause of Allah with their wealth and lives." Surah 4.95

According to the doctrine of jihad there are three waves of jihad. The first wave is the shock -- which was Sept 11.

The second wave is to show a people that they are vulnerable. It has to be public. "Daniel Pearl was killed on videotape," says Ergun. There is no question that group who killed Pearl is a subgroup of the radical Muslim fundamental group, Mujahdeen.

The third wave is to humiliate your enemy, to "cut the legs out from under them." "Thank God President Bush responded as he did," Ergun says. "If he had not, the second wave would have been much, much worse than the first." The Koran teaches that if your enemy is weak -- conquer him. If he is strong -- respect him. That means they keep going until they meet with resistance.

When asked if he believes Osama bin Laden is still alive, Ergun says yes. "He is considered to be a martyr in their faith. If he were dead, they would be hailing him." Peace With Allah, Not Us

"I must take this opportunity to side with Pat," says Ergun. "He cannot take these hits (from the media and press) alone." Ergun says the word "Islam" means "peace with Allah" not "peace with us." "We are the infidels and therefore the enemy," says Ergun.

He further explains that when a Christian blows up an abortion clinic, he does that in spite of the teachings of Jesus Christ. "Muslims perform jihad because of the teachings of Muhammed," declares Ergun. "Make no mistake, they are at war with us and these are not just radical Muslims."

Osama bin Laden is a Sunni Muslim, not a Shiite, which is considered the more radical of the two. When bin Laden is on television, he is quoting the Qur'an. "It is difficult to take the Qur'an out of context," says Ergun. Even to the casual reader, jihad is more than just an intellectual exercise of struggle, but rather an engagement in battle and struggle and warfare with death as a conclusion for the Muslim blessing.

Muhammad echoed this conclusion in Hadith 4.73 "Muhammed said, "Know that paradise is under the shades of the sword." For the Muslim apologists who redact the terminology to indicate that fighting is perhaps an intellectual debate must read Surah 2:216, "Fighting is prescribed for you, and you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and that you love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knows and you know not." It is impossible to determine that the text means anything but fighting in the traditional sense of combat.

A Muslim is a Muslim by birth, but many are illiterate. Therefore they must take the word of the imam, equivalent to a pastor, as truth. They cannot question the validity of what the imam says. With reference to the recent Gallup poll, "they hate us," says Ergun. "And they cannot make the distinction between an American and a Christian because of the way they are brought up culturally. When you say a man is a Turk, it is understood that he is Muslim."

Ergun believes that the United States did not finish the job in the Gulf War. He believes that we will not end the war on terrorism without including Saddam Hussein, who is the major fundraiser for Islam. "If we do not go after him, this will never end," he says. "He will continue the jihad."

But in the midst of this turmoil, Ergun says this is the most incredible opportunity to witness to Muslims. They are beginning to understand their religion. Many do not want to be part of the violence and are coming to Christ. The difference between reaching them and not reaching them depends on the teaching of grace.

"The single most important thing to do is teach on grace," he says. To Muslims, the intimacy of God is so new. Teach them that they don't have to live in fear of the "scales of Allah," which are seen as actual scales (2 Surah 4). For the Muslims who fear the scales that measure their eternal damnation if weighted heavier for evil than good, this is the only true eternal security they have.

Christians should also know that Allah and God are not the same. "No serious or intellectual Muslim would say that Allah has a Son, that He is a Triune, nor that He is personal," Ergun says. Allah is Creator and Judge. Christ's attributes are so totally different. He is loving, kind, gracious, and forgiving. As a Christian, Ergun is offended when he hears people say that God and Allah are the same. Many think getting to God is like getting to Chicago. You can get there by plane, train or auto. It doesn't matter what path you take, as long as you get there. Ergun calls this the "Oprahization" of American culture.

On October 19, 2001, Ergun spoke before the UN at the Subcommittee on Cultural Affairs. As an expert on Islam and one who speaks Arabic, he is being invited to participate in even more high-level projects on this area. There are only 20 former Muslims who are now preachers in America; there are only eight (and Ergun is one of them) who are professors of theology.

Instead, the carnage went on for decades, firmly establishing the Christian Church of the time as an evil institution that murders the innocent

Hi. There were two ancient Christian churches and I belong to the other, and older, one. That's not to say that mine is completely innocent of smaller excursions into power-hunger and destruction, as the Russian church got fairly nasty at one time too.

At any rate, what I think it proves is that we Christians are not perfect and are subject to falls.

You completely miss the point.

I imagine that's one drawback of not having matured in the Western tradition.

All Muslims are decidely not the same. Some are decidedly splendid fellows. What I say is that all too many of them have sufficiently demonstrated to me that they ARE NOT splendid fellows. Until the splendid fellows among the Muslims settle the hash of the others, I say keep all of them the heck away from the West.

What would you have us do. OWK, risk death while WE sort the good from the bad? We are not dealing with Chiricahua raids here dude. There are 2 or 300 Million Muslims out there that require serious sorting out. Get out. Sort out. Reapply as residents of Christendom when you're done.

If you want to stay, take a positive step right now: stand on your hind legs and insist that the Muslim nations treat Christians as well as I am treating you.

Again you say "these people" as if one Muslims actions are attributable to all Muslims.

I have done my share of wading into muslim-bashing to be sure, but in this post I was referring to the terrorist ones.

What I do believe is that the moderates are more at risk for leaders to convert them over to the terrorist types than Christians or atheists or Hindus.

then we MUST sort out the good from the bad.

I can go with this. Let's start with the mosque in Bridgeview Illinios, which has photos of jewish hearts wrapped in American flags with knives through them, on the walls. And sells terrorist videos. What should we do in this particular case, do you think?

Then let's think about the mosque in Potomac, Maryland, just a few miles from the White House, where the acts of the terrorists on 9-11 were commemorated and honored. Where do we draw the line on this situation? Was it ok for them to honor their terrorist friends who died and what they did? So are these "good" muslims or not? I am asking for your opinion, no sarcasm here. In my church they don't teach anything but love your neighbor and bless your enemies.

"For today, the West is facing a proliferating extremist movement, deliberately hiding under mainstream religious protection in its own backyard."

This I believe to be true. Said by Steven Emerson. here

The problem is what to do about it. Do we send police into mosques and have them check for those lovely videos and even listen to the speeches for hate content?

I have four children. Why can't THEY just leave us alone to live our lives in peace? Why do they have to spew hatred and condone killing of "fellow" Americans? Prior to 9-11 I was in complete agreement that our foreign policy was too intrusive. I voted for Buchanan. Where does your concern for respect toward others begin to include the average American?
Have you seen the RAWA page? Let's do have respect for others, and let it begin with muslims. Muslims in this country, in Illinois and Maryland.

Where do we draw the line on this situation?

As with ALL situations, we draw the line at the violation of the rights of others.

Was it ok for them to honor their terrorist friends who died and what they did?

Do I think they were good men to honor murderers? No, I don't. Do I think they were violating the rights of others by doing so? No, I don't. We live in a land which is supposed to respect the notions of rights and liberty. In such a land, the state may not act to punish people for their thoughts. Only for their deeds.

So are these "good" muslims or not?

They don't sound like good Muslims to me. They sound like pretty scummy folks. But again, do you hold ALL Muslims accountable for their foolishness? Or do you attribute the blame where it belongs?

I am asking for your opinion, no sarcasm here. In my church they don't teach anything but love your neighbor and bless your enemies.

I'm not much in the church department, but I say love your neighbor, and CRUSH your enemies. But you'd better make damned sure the one you're crushing is your enemy if you want to be able to claim that your actions are moral.

How do you know if someone is your enemy?

If he moves to initiate force against you, he is your enemy, and his actions justify the application of restraining and/or punative force in your defense.

But the actions of an evil Muslim fundamentalist in New Jersey, do not morally justify the application of force against an otherwise peaceful Muslim in some jerkwater town in Turkey, just because he happens to be Muslim.

Why can't THEY just leave us alone to live our lives in peace?

Has it occurred to you that Muslims all over the Middle East ask precisely the same question about us?

The founders of this nations warned us strongly about avoiding foreign entanglements, and interventionist foreign policy.

And like most of the wisdom of the founders... it was ignored with dire consequences.

No OWK, you sort the good Muslims from the bad Muslims. They are your people, you handle it.

Since you're a humane man and a splendid fellow, you'll probably want to minimize collateral damage amongst your American Christian and Jewish neighbours, so just do the sort-out of the evil Muslims and the good in an already Muslim part of the planet. You don't even have to kill or maim them, as your co-religionists are doing today to Christians in The Sudan, East Timor, and The Phillipines, just bring them to sweet reason and get them under control. Given your glowing descriptions of Muslim sophistication, this should not overtax the resources of Islam. Perhaps a fatwa or two would do it.

I plainly can see that you have had, with the exception of formal Logic, some Western education, You are also polite enough, and do adequately represent the Muslim point of view. So, I would be happy to meet you in public debate.

Meet me in the First Congregationalist Church of Riyadh Hall, right after Easter Services.

Agreed. The problem seems to be, however, that they have taken advantage of our freedoms to plot against us in our very own towns and cities. And to collect money for their terrorist friends in other countries, as well.

So, "otherwise peaceful" may be a deception and what if it is not in Turkey but right here. Like that one guy who was a professor at the University in Florida and then ended up in Syria as the head of some jihad group. While he was here he was fund raising for his planned jihad activities. Got all kinds of govt funds for his Muslim Cultural Centre or something like that, then took them home to buy arms.

At what point is suspicion ok when it comes to anyone professing the muslim faith? How long do we wait?

If we do not have the manpower to oversee every muslim, how do we detect which ones are actually just being muslims, and which are hiding behind a facade of being peaceful muslims?

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.