Posted on 02/25/2002 11:01:41 PM PST by fortheDeclaration
Do the words" by the grace of God" stick in your throats?
I have answered Shadows question several times, by asking how he was brought to repentance..because it is the same thing that saves a child
A good part of the problem is the message-Gospel is garbled--backward!
"Nor was it to undervalue good works that our Lord gave, what many may deem such a singular answer to the question of the Jews, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?" "This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent" (John 6:29). They wanted to work their way into the favor of God. The Lord tells them that they may have that favor without waiting or working; by accepting at once His testimony to His only-begotten Son. Till then, they were not in a condition for working. They were as trees without a root; as stars whose motions, however regular, would be useless, if they themselves were... unlighted."
Wesley answered you in the second point of his sermon, at the very top of this post (sound of Ward clearing his throat):
The grace or love of God, whence cometh our salvation, is FREE IN ALL, and FREE FOR ALL.
'scuse me for shouting, but I wanted to make sure you heard us this time.
Now, what would we do if we had been treated as God was? If we had made a supper or a feast, and sent out messengers to invite the guests to come, what would we do? Do you think we should take the trouble to go round and visit them all, and get them to come? And when they sat down and said they could not eat would we open their mouths? If they still declared they could not eat, should we still make them eat? Ah! beloved, I am inclined to think you would not do so. If you had signed the letters of invitation, and the invited would not come to your feast, would you not say, "You shall not have it." But what does God do? He says, "Now I will make a feast, I will invite the people, and if they do not come in, my ministers shall go out and fetch them in bodily. I will say to my servants, go ye out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that they may partake of the feast I have prepared." Is it not a stupendous act of divine mercy that he actually makes them willing? He does not do it by force, but uses a sweet spiritual suasion.
Mat 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, 3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come. :4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and [my] fatlings [are] killed, and all things [are] ready: come unto the marriage. 5 But they made light of [it], and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: :6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated [them] spitefully, and slew [them].at 7 But when the king heard [thereof], he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. 8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy. 9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage. 10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests. 11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: 12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. 13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast [him] into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 14 For many are called, but few [are] chosen.
Why do you think he was thrown out? He merely wanted the feast and was not willing to dress in a wedding garment--to actually be part of the wedding.
Now, please, Mom. Answer my original question. How does one, born a sinner, without repentance, enter heaven?
Your own verse--many are called but few are chosen--seems to contradict what you are saying about every infant who dies is elect.
If we "repent" on our own..with out God's grace it is not true repentance.
I will say one more time..that the same grace that God saves us with He saves infants with. He is the author and finisher of our faith. God initiates our salvation, He is sovereign in all matters.
So how does a baby go through the 4 spiritual laws? How does a baby save himself?
Mom, I think we established the grace issue back in #945. Please don't make me shout again, I have to sing Sunday.
When you say the first step is repentance I think you would be in conflict with "the_doc's" read on 1 Corinthians 2:14 which he tells me proves the Calvinist position that we have to be born again (regenerated) before repentance, and proves the entire argument for predestination in the Calvinist view.
That's a little unfair because doc is out of commission this week. But I believe I am fairly stating his position on that verse.
You ask: So how does a baby go through the 4 spiritual laws?
Which is exactly the question ShadowAce asked of you way back.
That's exactly my point, Mom. The baby doesn't. He has no need, since he has no sin to be saved from. That is my position.
Your position (as I see it) is that all babies are automatically guilty of sin that should cause them to be thrown into hell. You also state that God steps in and saves all infants who die in infancy so they go to heaven--without any repentance or realization of sin on the part of the baby.
Since God can step in with all infants and save them--through no action of their own--why does He only choose some adults to save? What does man lose when he reaches the age of culpability?
I would tend to agree with you here..but I trust God to illuminate His word..
I remember how strange the language was to me at first,the grace of God is a powerful force:>) even more that a bad paraphrase *grin*
"By nature we have no peace; "there is no peace to the wicked." Man craves peace; longs for it. God has made it for us; presents... it(Christ/Gospel)---to us."
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