Posted on 02/25/2002 11:01:41 PM PST by fortheDeclaration
Why Jerry? Because I came here with a set of ideas? Because I questioned you guys and said "show me where I'm wrong" or "show me where I'm not understanding you?" and then you point me to a page that puts me back to where I was to begin with?
I've been pretty straightforward about the fact that I will never be convinced in the context of a computer forum.
Why does it surprise you then that you point me to a page that spells it out and I come back and say "that's what I thought?"
If an Arminian preached to Stalin (for which he would have probably been shot), and said "Comrade Stalin, Jesus died for your sins", and a Calvinist preached to Stalin (for which he too would have probably been shot) and said "Comrade Stalin, Jesus died for sinners", which one would have told the truth, in the end analysis?
More'n a little. I have been nibbling here-and-there at some of the Political threads, but I avoid the Theology threads when I am swamped.
Why? Because I care a lot more about the Theology threads. A Politics threads I can take or leave (and I do), but I just know if I jump into the Theology threads, I will be involved for hours on end...
Mea Culpa. ;-)
Best,
OP
Now that you are here, I look forward to that.
Yes, the Lord was pleased to place a longing for her in my soul. Oh, and at the risk of dropping this pearl before [lurking] swine, He told her before we had even dated that I was going to be her husband.
In the same way, the Lord placed a longing for Him in my soul.
You and I have gone over this before, Woody. Romans 2.
In way way does this gospel have the ability to save? I believe that you didn't like my assumptions from the last time you said this, so I will plainly let you speak about it.
This is far superior to a"gospel call" I heard on the radio..where the woman invited the listeners to "pray " with her
Her prayer went like this
Lord
I know I have made mistakes but I trust to will forgive me .Please come into my heart"
Pathetic..this woman has just given a false gospel call ..but that is what happens if you are afraid to let men know that they are sinners in need of a Savior
2 Corinthians 7 9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
So God is responsible for the evil of the Soviet Union?
God is responsible for Hitler?
God is responsible for 9-11?
For Osama Bin Laden?
bingo!" how can it be that Oh my God has died for me?" Yep no logic there!
In case you had not noticed, God was responsible for granting men free will -- even though He knew that men would use it for all those evil things.
And He didn't have to Create at all. And, given that He did resolve to Create, He certainly did not have to create Lenin. You may refuse to admit God's Sovereignty over men's salvation, but I certainly think you ought admit His Sovereignty over their conception. Foreknowing that the birth of Lenin would bring about the murders of hundreds of millions, and ultimately result in Lenin's being thrown into Hell... and foreknowing that just the most microscopic of changes in the Divine Design would prevent Lenin's ever being born (one sperm, one egg, slightly different environmental factors on one day of history), or result in an entirely different Lenin... God nonetheless decided that this Lenin (the one He actually ordained to create) should be brought into the world, that Lenin should (freely) choose to make the evil choices which He would make (though God could have created him differently, or introduced different Graces into his life), and be thrown into Hell at the end of his days.
Lenin's choices were freely made, by Lenin. Likewise, God's choice to create Lenin at all, and ordain the creation of Lenin as He did -- with full foreknowledge of what choices Lenin would make if created one way, or another, if some circumstances were brought into his life, or different -- was a choice freely made by God.
So, ultimately, yes -- God is responsible for everything.
Did God create Stalin? Did God create Hitler? Did God create the 9-11 hijackers? Did God create Usama bin Laden?
Did God know how they would turn out? Could God have created them differently, or chosen to not create them at all?
Or, better stated, is Stalin bigger than God? Is Hitler bigger than God? The 9-11 hijackers? Usama bin Laden?
No, God is not responsible for the evil of the Soviet Union, but He did permit it. God is not responsible for 9-11, but He did permit it. He could have chosen to change the participants in such a way that they would not have performed these atrocities, yet He did not.
Do you know why He did not?
Absolutely not! Your concept does. You have already given me the debate: God's choice either to create a man this way or that way determines his free will choice to either heaven or hell. You see, I can give you your view of a man that is too big and you still cannot overthrow Predestination.
My definition allows God's foreknowledge through the depth of time, but also to an infinite number of possible Potentialities which God has free Sovereign action to give Actuality to the One of His choice.
You guys are even arrogant with your capitalization.
Jean needs to point out where Arminius, Wesley or anyone of us has said "Buh-Bye" to anything on the list.
Otherwise it's a misrepresentation. Something, of course, none of you calvinists would ever accuse the Arminians of doing.
Jean
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