Posted on 02/12/2002 11:02:45 AM PST by Dawgsquat
The only way competition can duplicate combat conditions is if someone was shooting back. The only problem with dismissing competitions is that it's the ultimate in practice. There is no better way to practice than to get into competition. The guns have to work, the ammo can't fail, and the shooter has to adapt to different scenarios that they don't have any control over.
For anyone who tries to practice on their own: Did you practice shooting from a "flat on your back" position lately? Shooting from barricades? Behind cars? Seated at a table? Shooting moving targets? Were you out there when it's 40 degrees with a 20 mile an hour wind gusts. 110 degrees? Weak hand? One handed?
Competition can't duplicate warfare. Competition is more practice and it allows you to grade your practice.
For those of us who may have to make do with what we can carry, the answer is 5.56mm.
Or a 10mm. 15 rounds of black talon in my Glock mod 20 makes it a great 'looking for trouble' pistol. It's accurate and handles well. I used both my mod 20 and a SIG 229 in .40 to qualify for my Idaho CWP.
Amen Brother!!
I'd take my Oly M4gery any day of the week...
On the pistols....I like both. I prefer a 1911 style .45 because of how it feels in my hand and the bullet weight but I also own an old 92SB and a Taurus 99...both of which have very smooth action just as the article said. Pistols are generally for up close needs and the ammo weight may not be quite as large a concern as with a rifle and there are a number of high cap. (pre ban) .45s to choose from.
One 9mm I cannot shoot well and which has been in my family for decades is the High Power....I know it's wonderful and well made. Likewise, the large HK .45 tacticals are not really my cup of tea either but they are state of the art ..no doubt.
Just some thoughts.
For some, that may be a revolver, for some it might me a .22 target pistol.
I work in a rough part of town and I'm always chatting with lady customers about their best protection....I always advise a light .38/357 or maybe a .44 special...but always a simple lightweight revolver....it ain't rocket science is it?? and you need not be a crack shot.
As for home protection for a single female (or anybody else)...a big loyal territorial male dog is also a must. My 70 year old mom is well served by her 100 lb Dobie...and her lightweight .38/357....she took the course and has had her CCW for 3 years now since my dad passed on.
regards.
In reality, nearly 0% of pistol fights occur at over 50 feet, 70% are at less than 21 feet, 50% are at less than 10 feet, and 30% are "in contact" or wrestling matches.
The SWAT cop uses his high cap pistol fully aware, psyched, ready to storm a building.
The opposite is true for the civilian. He is surprised, often awakened at night, it is unplanned. The premium must be on simplicity and reliability. Pull and shoot. For me that's a revolver.
In a sudden unexpected crisis, you will have tunnel vision, ringing in the ears, and clumsy frozen fingers. Every decision which you may need to make introduces an element which may cause brain freeze and failure. The second taken to think "did I chamber a round in this auto last month" can kill you as your brain forces you to check. Your clumsy frozen fingers may then jam your gun as you pull the slide back to look. This is all happening while some dirtbag is stabbing or clubbing you or your wife. That's just one example, safeties introduce another "area of doubt": "Does the safety on this one go up or down?" People will laugh, but in a crisis, this really happens. Or folks don't get a shot off because on their carry gun the safety is "up", and this one is "down", so they push it the wrong way and never fire. This really happens, when you go from happy (or sleeping) camper to attack victim with no warning.
That's why for the civilian, who does not shoot every week, and who may not see his bedside gun for weeks, a revolver is best. It is just "point and shoot" with no "decisions" to hobble your brain with fatal doubt.
I just got an FN L1A1 (7.62 NATO). I love it. I've got an AR15 and carried an M16 professionally in Infantry units....
The L1A1 with ammo is a heckuva hump! Heavy rifle, heavy ammo. As a did some hiking with it, I became much more fatigued with it than I ever did carring the AR15.
Ugh... for that kind of extra weight, I'd rather be carrying a GPMG like the M60 and have a serious increase in firepower for all the extra weight.
5.56mm has kinda re-earned my respect.
I think the Glock magazines are made out of a flimsier material than the frames. As I stated, I don't have a Glock at hand to look at it myself. This is generally true of all polymer magazines; they are not made out of the same material as the frame and the good ones are reinforced with metal. I am guessing in the case of magazines it is merely a cost issue, as using cheap plastic and stamped metal is cheaper than fabricating it with good composites.
Regardless, as I stated before, there is zero play in the H&K frames even under high pressure. They are extremely stiff, and the kinds of problems you are talking about simply can't happen with them. I'd be willing to bet that some of the other polymer framed pistols exhibit similar stiffness as the H&K. Maybe Glock isn't one of these (damn, now I'll have to check next time I have my Glock around), and I have noticed that they use flimsier polymer parts than most, but you are painting with a really wide brush. That said, one of the reasons I have never been a Glock-phile (despite the fact that so many people that I know are) is that there are annoying deficiencies in the way the magazines operate with the pistol.
Of course you can call me a liar but my friend I don't need to BS anyone about this subject.
I have seen dozens upon dozens of extreme forms of abuse on Glocks, including people putting extreme torsional forces on the frame, and I've never once seen or even heard of such a failure. Which is why I suggested that there must have been something else wrong with the weapon for that to happen. Perhaps something anomalous did happen with your Glock; either way it hardly represents a trend.
The number of rounds that go through a competition pistol shows the endurance of any gun under heavey use type of conditions.
These are bogus criteria. The "endurance" of a pistol is utterly irrelevant in a military context. Reliability, on the other hand, is of utmost importance, as is durability. Cost is important too. Some of the contract rack pistols models for the U.S. military have a MRBF of >10,000 rounds on average. Shooting every kind of ammo you can think of. Military contract M1911s can't even do 1,000 MRBF with ball ammo. Competitive shooting doesn't do anything to test the design limits of reliability for a pistol, as you are shooting fine quality ammo out of a clean pistol in a pristine shooting environment. A soldier wants a pistol that goes bang every time, even if it has been dragged through the mud or dropped in the ocean. An M1911 doesn't do this very well. Note also that the SIG, H&K, and Beretta platforms have all seen a fair amount of action in the U.S. military, so they could hardly be considered unproven.
Even more competition tells you what gun handles the best as the many different styles of competition(bullseye,IPSC,IDPA and three gun matches) shows by the winner what make handles well under stress.
That is a false premise. A good shooter can take a crap pistol and beat a bad shooter with a race gun every time. The favored guns for matches are the guns that are well-suited for winning the matches; this says nothing about their suitability for combat. The criteria for a good combat pistol are vastly different than the criteria for a good match pistol. And you see a lot fewer M1911s winning and competing in matches that require that you use a stock weapon.
While I do think Glocks and H&Ks are very good for their police application I would rather have a battle poven weapon with the history of the 1911.
History doesn't win a battle. Many battles were won with swords, but I wouldn't take one into combat.
Incidentally, putting Glock and H&K together in the same basket is simply wrong as they have very different design histories. The Glock platform was originally designed to meet the requirements of a European police contract. The H&K platform was originally designed to meet the requirements of a U.S. Spec Ops contract. There are a number of functional design differences between these platforms that make it very clear which was designed as a serious military weapon and which was designed as a police pistol. "Polymer" does not equal "police".
I keep within reach an old Super Blackhawk and my wife's ultra lightweight .38 as well as a last resort North American Arms .32 auto ( I know it's a bit small but I got the gun through a freebie..I wish it was the .380 Guardian)..all are loaded with Glazers. I love the Blackhawk...I know that it will always fire and in "inside the house" range I'm not likely to miss plus cocking an SA is instinctive for me. If the .44 mag Glazer hits an assailant's torso they are in serious trouble. And if I can get to my gun cabinet (in my bedroom) then it's showtime.
I saw some coyotes in my yard last week at dawn and I sprang into action and grabbed the Blackhawk and ran towards the door in my boxers but by the time I got outside (it was about 25 degrees) they were headed up the ridge and outta range. During the past month a group of them have killed a cat next door and a puppy across the street and with many of us having toddlers in our yards at times I wanted to send the pack a message to move on. You should have seen the look on my wife's face as I raced by as she was having her morning java...me in boxers toting my hand cannon. LOL...ordinarily I'm not much on shooting coyotes but I fear turning my back for a moment when I'm out back with my 20 month old....fears of the Dingo thing..i guess. If they'll shred a pup ..they worry me.
I had a fellow break in my house while in college....I didn't shoot him with my model 28 .357 but I could have....he ran as he saw me with my pistol. Today with 3 children and a wife in my house...I would act much differently I fear.
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