Iranians Rally Against United States

http://www.iran.org/news/WSJe_960829.html
"What accounts for the German -- and European -- interest in Iran? Vulnerability to oil and terrorist blackmail is a big part of it. So is trade: German exports to Iran reached $6 billion in 1993. For Europeans eager to see themselves as playing a geopolitical role in the Middle East, there is also the temptation of filling a vacuum left by the U.S. Germany has ties with Iran going back to the 1930s, so nostalgia plays a role too. The European Union has adopted a common policy toward Iran, called a "critical dialogue." It means, in theory, a critical posture toward Iran's misbehavior while maintaining normal commercial and political relations. "

"The Europeans seem beyond embarrassment in their devotion to the "critical dialogue." Not Iran's continuing military buildup, nor its active support for terrorism, nor its pursuit of weapons of mass destruction, nor its active hostility toward the Arab-Israeli diplomacy has dampened Europe's enthusiasm. The British are only slightly deterred by the mullahs' reaffirmation of the Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini's fatwa against Salman Rushdie and the reports in April 1994 that Iran had aided the Irish Republican Army."

"The Germans' honored guest, Mr. Fallahian, is now the subject of an arrest warrant issued by a German court. He is suspected of having planned the 1992 murders of four Iranian Kurdish exiles at a Berlin restaurant, part of a series of such murders going back to 1987. Mr. Schmidbauer reportedly intervened to ensure that Mr. Fallahian would not be asked about any of the murders on his 1993 visit. Leaked documents make clear that German authorities have a mountain of evidence that the killings were organized by the Bonn station of Savama, the Iranian foreign intelligence service, operating out of the third floor of the Iranian Embassy, with branches in the Iranian consulates in Frankfurt, Hamburg, Berlin, and Munich. In August 1995, two Iranian "diplomats" were expelled from Germany. "

"The embarrassment continues. This April an EU troika of foreign ministers visited Tehran hoping to obtain an official statement from the Islamic Republic condemning terrorism. They came home disappointed. The same month, an Iranian freighter out of Bandar Abbas, destination Hamburg, was intercepted in Antwerp, Belgium carrying disassembled mortars -- a special 320mm mortar capable of firing 275-pound shells a half mile. Last month Siemens AG -- long rumored to be involved in aiding Iran's nuclear power development -- was embarrassed by press reports of a radiation accident at a power station in northern Iran injuring at least seven Siemens engineers. The most recent press leak was of a German sale to Iran of five Dornier transport aircraft, usable for reconnaissance missions."

from BBC:

"At the end of the eighth round of the comprehensive talks between the Islamic Republic of Iran and the EU, held in Madrid, the two sides underlined the need to expand cooperation in the fields of commerce and investment [robbing the Iranian people's money], energy[stealing Iran's oil], combating drugs [monopolizing drug trade by akhoonds] and the issue of refugees [deportation of Iranian political activists opposing the regime], and it was decided that the implementation of previous agreements and accords should be expedited [before it is too late and the Iranian people destroy the criminal regime]."

European business sees new area of potential
The Financial Times
By AP: AGENCY MATERIAL, NAJMEH BOZORGMEHR and STEFAN WAGSTYL
February 7, 2002
The European business community in Tehran sees the US threats against Iran as a potential opportunity, further delaying the return of American rivals to the country named as being part of an "axis of evil".

"It's like Christmas for European and Japanese companies," said a consultant who believed that the return of US companies would be delayed for at least a few more years.

Businessmen expect oil deals, which have been delayed by the Iranian side for more than a year, to be signed in the not-too-distant future to strike a blow against US sanctions and threats.

This is what is happening to the Iranian people as the Europeans make deals with the criminal regime ! just like the Catholic Church, IBM, and others, who helped out Hitler and the Nazi regime !

RE #34

Exactly how much of Iranian opposition inside and outside Iran is made up of former radical left-wing before the Shah Pahlavi was toppled ? I remeber that these left-wing factions were allied with Khomeini's Shi'ite fundamentalists initially. But brutally purged short time later, including Fadayen Halq, Mujahedhin Halq, and Tudeh, the Iranian Communist Party. The head of Tudeh was executed after Televised confession in Iranian TV.

Given these background, today's Iranian democratic opposition may be (1)Monarchists(Pahlavi's son and his constituency) (2)Former radical left who may lean toward to third way, EU-like direction (3)Large number of young Iranians who has no use for any ideology, either leftism or religion. I think that the first two group will try to draw the third group under their wing with newly packaged outlook. In that sense, monarchist may have an edge if they can sucessfully market the young Shah to mass of youth. But it would be interesting how radical left will play their card against young Pahlavi's faction and mass of youth.

The Khobar tower bombing carried out by Iranian backed agents who fled there afterwared

What evidence is there of this? I was under the impression that Khobar was a Bin Laden Special. Do you have a link to an article connecting Iran to that?

most of the leftist oppositions are outside Iran. inside Iran is mostly people under age of 30 (75% of Iranians) who hardly have any memory of the Shah's regime or the revolution.

the young people of Iran want separation of religion from government. they want a secualr democratic republic.

they do not want monarchy, and they do not want communism.

I suggest you read articles on this web site, including this one:

WHY DID SHIISM BECOME THE FLAG OF UNITY IN THE 1979 IRANIAN REVOLUTION?

What is the Solution?

We call them a part of the 'axis of evil'...

They respond by calling the British ambassador a 'Jewish spy', holding national rallies where they chant "Death to America", and make references to using suicide bombers against America.

Yup. No evil THERE! We really owe them an apology! /sarcasm>

"We call them a part of the 'axis of evil'... They respond by calling the British ambassador a 'Jewish spy' " who is the axis of evil ? The islamic regime, NOT THE IRANIAN PEOPLE ! who funds terrorists and bombs American baracks ? The islamic regime, NOT THE IRANIAN PEOPLE !

But surely you must admit that it took more than the just the members of the Islamic regime to populate those rallies (even larger than last year's!). Also, it rarely matters what large parts of the actual population of a nation thinks once its leaders have made a stand. I'm sure that many citizens of many nations failed to support the wars that their leaders participated in (VietNam is a great example)... that doesn't mean the war gets called off, the soldiers return home safely, and that the citizens are no longer in danger of becoming 'collateral damages'. America has to respond to the Iranian Islamic regime that is in power... and if they're going to respond to a remark by proving their hostile intentions, then we will have to act accordingly.

(The smart thing to do would've been to deny that they're 'evil', and perform acts of kindness, brotherhood, and good-will to demonstrate to the world that the comment is simply wrong and even rather rude. Instead, they behaved aggressively and threateningly, and proved President Bush's point better than anyone else possible could have.)

possible = possibly

"But surely you must admit that it took more than the just the members of the Islamic regime to populate those rallies " NO I don't agree. Iran has a population of 70 million, and Tehran has over 10 million. what percentage of that is 300,000 ? only 3% !!!! so you want to punish 97% of Iranians, for the actions of 3% ? by the way, the islamic regime is NOT the legitamate representative of the Iranian people. They usurped power by forcing Iranians to vote for them in an non-secret ballot referendum - Iranians had to vote yes (green card) or no (red card), while the armed islamic guards were watching. would you dare to hold a red card in your hand ? if the US and Europe weren't so greedy over oil, they would kick the islamic regime out of the United Nations, put them under total trade sanctions, and give support to the democratic movement of the Iranian people. That's how you get rid of terrrorism. but no, the arms industry in the US must make money, so Bush increases the "defence" budget, and makes the companies that build airplanes and smart-bombs happy. and what about Europeans? well, as long as the islamic regime is occupying Iran, they can buy cheap oil, and sell weapons to the mullahs. They have Jackie Ballard lobby on behalf of the mullahs, just like Laila Helms was lobbying for the Talben in the US.

US Afghanistan policy influenced by oil

We're not neutralizing Pakistan because Musharrif is for sale to the highest bidder, and the one with the biggest stick (currently the US). As long as the bucks keep rolling in, and the CIC stands firm, Pakistan is not a WMD threat -- if that changes, so will policy.

Thanks for your posts. Welcome to FR. I must assume you either are in Iran, or have been recently, to have such detailed knowledge. I do, however, have to disagree with a few points in your post.

Iran has a population of 70 million, and Tehran has over 10 million. what percentage of that is 300,000 ? only 3% !!!! so you want to punish 97% of Iranians, for the actions of 3% ?

I don't want to punish the 97%... I want anyone who advocates, supports, or performs terrorist actions to be punished. Iran has been given a 'free pass' (see post #30) for quite some time... thanks to those Islamic militants who murdered 3000 American innocents, our temperance is at an end.

by the way, the islamic regime is NOT the legitamate representative of the Iranian people. They usurped power by forcing Iranians to vote for them in an non-secret ballot referendum - Iranians had to vote yes (green card) or no (red card), while the armed islamic guards were watching. would you dare to hold a red card in your hand ?

Thank you for the great history lesson. When was that? Also, why aren't there any revolts or a nation-wide rebellion? (Easy for me to say, I know, because our Forefathers made that huge sacrifice for us a few hundred years ago.)

if the US and Europe weren't so greedy over oil, they would kick the islamic regime out of the United Nations, put them under total trade sanctions, and give support to the democratic movement of the Iranian people.

The UN is NOT America's friend, and will never again be a forum for America to exert authority. Our one vote carries as much weight as Sudan's. Most of the member nations want to go in a different direction than the US, and they've learned that once we're out-voted, we've lost most of our mandate to lead... and kicking anyone out is close to impossible. And as for supporting the democracy movement in Iran, I guarantee you that almost everyone on this forum does, and I would certainly expect any American move against Iran to involve some HEAVY contributions and cooperation going to your groups! (Did you notice that the dissident factions in Afghanistan were basically just handed the entire nation? I would think that this would cause you to encourage a US move against Iran!)

the arms industry in the US must make money, so Bush increases the "defence" budget, and makes the companies that build airplanes and smart-bombs happy... well, as long as the islamic regime is occupying Iran, they can buy cheap oil, and sell weapons to the mullahs.

Ensuring that American industries are strong is certainly in the best-interests of America, no matter what they manufacture. I will agree with you that our government can go about that in some really insipid ways on occasion, especially domestically. However, our military contractors are a worthy and valuable asset. (Now if they could just stop selling us those $800 hammers)
As for 'cheap oil', I dare say that if the Islamic regime wasn't in power, oil prices would be lower. OPEC has done a remarkable job of controlling prices to their greatest advantage.

Do I have a link? First, I've heard this stated by many credible ex-intelligence people on television numerous times. But you can just go to Yahoo and search on "Iran Khobar Towers" and you'll find a bunch. I did that, and came up with among others this one

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,132615,00.html

Thursday, Jun. 21, 2001
Attorney General John Ashcroft has assured the relatives of the 19 U.S. servicemen killed in the bombing of Khobar Towers that justice will be done. But the indictment issued Thursday for the bombing suggests that even if the U.S. managed to round up any of the accused, the resulting trial would be about as satisfying to the victims' loved ones as the Lockerbie trial was to the families of those killed in the bombing of Pan Am 103. Two Libyan intelligence agents were tried for that crime, but nobody doubted that the real author — there are not too many individuals in Libya with the authority to order an outrage of such profound international consequences — was never in court.

The indicted men are mostly Saudi members of the Iran-backed Hezbollah guerrilla movement, and the indictment alleges that unnamed Iranian officials "inspired, supported and supervised" the accused men in their surveillance activities preceding the attack. And it doesn't take an intelligence analyst to figure out that an organization "supported and supervised" by Iran would not attack the world's most powerful military in a traditionally hostile neighboring country unless someone pretty powerful in Tehran had signed off on the strike.

Duke, how do a group of American wrestlers who were well-treated by the Iranian people compare to thousands of Iranians screaming "Death to America"? Is there something about that phrase you don't understand?

"Thousands"? I only say ten or twenty in the photos I ran across (and I did actively look for photos of a larger crowd). I guess that might be millions in the world of "million man math"(?)

No I'm not in Iran. I'm an Iranian national / US citizen.

"I want anyone who advocates, supports, or performs terrorist actions to be punished"

and that would be the islamic rulers occupying Iran. the US can bring those people to justice by helping the Iranian democratic movement. The US media is too quiet on expsoing the crimes of the islamic regime. as soon as we went to war against the Taleban, US newspapers started talking about RAWA and Taleban's crimes against afghani women. Well the islamic regime occupying Iran has committed just as many heinous crimes. I have documented some of them on my web site. Instead of having "president" khatami come to the US and talk on TV (Charlie Rose), we should have leaders of the Student Democratic Movement, and leaders of the Iranian National Front come on TV and radio shows. If we take away the regime's legitamacy in the world, they Iranian people will take care of them themselves.

"When was that? Also, why aren't there any revolts or a nation-wide rebellion?"

The initial referendum was after the '79 revolution. the islamists usurped power by force, and coerced the population to vote for the islamic government. all of their so-called elections are non-democratic: the clerics select and approve the candidates, and who knows how they count the votes.

There have been many uprisings and revolts, but they have all been put down with viscious and savage force. In 1999 there was a huge student uprising, but the regime's Lebanese and Palestinian militia-men, combined with their Iranian police force, crushed the uprising, and many of the students were imprisoned and tortured. They are still locked up.

"Did you notice that the dissident factions in Afghanistan were basically just handed the entire nation? I would think that this would cause you to encourage a US move against Iran!)"

Iranians are fiercly independent. They do not want anybody, especially not the US, to meddle in their affairs. in 1953 the CIA overthrew Iran's democratically elected President Mohammad Mossadegh, and brought back the dictator Shah. That's because the US and its European allies don't want to see democracy and independence established in Iran (or Afghanistan or Iraq). You never see the US or Europeans support democratic groups, only former kings and warlords and tribesmen, etc. Like I said before, why doesn't the American media give interviews to leaders of democratic movement in Iran, instead of the the son of the former Shah ? So any way, Iranians don't want to see the US do a repeat of 1953. All they want, is for the "free" world to stop legitamizing the criminal islamic regime, and they will overthrow it by themselves.

"Ensuring that American industries are strong is certainly in the best-interests of America, no matter what they manufacture"

Except that weapons are not like fruits or software. weapons are intended for killing people, and the only way they can have demand, is for there to be wars. So the US intentionally starts wars in various parts of the world, in order to create demand for the weapons its companies produce. if there was peace in the world, lockhead and martin-marietta would go broke ! and since those are usually heavy contributors to the election campaign of someone like Bush, he makes sure that he rewards them by starting a war or two, so that the US government can then use tax payer money to hand over to the arms manufacturors. Europeans are also helping their weapons manufactorors, by supporting the Iranian regime. you can't sell weapons, unless people kill each other. if people aren't killing each other, you have to incite wars between them. that's what you have things like cia and mi6.