The Cross vs. the Swastika

Boundless ^ | 1/26/02 | Matt Kaufman

[Junior]

Which led to a whole series of discussions.  Maybe ol'sparky would do well to familiarize himself with the discussions which have taken place on this subject in the past:

• Fossil Record: Evolution or "Scientific Creation," The [Thread I] (2001-06-30)

• Fossil Record: Evolution or "Scientific Creation," The [ Thread II] (2001-07-01)

• Fossil Record: Evolution or "Scientific Creation," The [ Thread III] (2001-07-04)

• Fossil Record: Evolution or "Scientific Creation," The [ Thread IV] (2001-07-06)

• Fossil Record: Evolution or "Scientific Creation," The [ Thread V] (2001-07-08)

[ThinkPlease]

The snowflake is completely irrelevant. The question is whether the planet, universe and life on the universe are becoming more disorderly, according the Second Law. All physical systems, all life, is becoming more disorderly, losing energy, decaying and will eventually die.

No, it isn't, it is an example that relates to concepts that you need to understand. The reactions that lead to the assembling of snowflakes are the same type of reactions that lead to the formations of complex molecules which leads to the formation of life. That several of these reactions occur leads to the conclusion that it is extremely likely that other reactions will occur as well, including the reactions that lead to the evolution of life forms.

[PatrickHenry]

I consider this to be an important statement. It has an awful lot to do with what is going generally on these crevo threads.

Yes. Absolutely. It's Galileo and the solar system all over again. But religion survived that one. It will survive this one too. However, the creationists who insist on inerrancy are utterly ignorant of the history of the issue.

[patriot_wes]

"It’s not easy reading, but it’s an enlightening tale of how the Nazis — faced with a country where the overwhelming majority considered themselves Christians — built their power while plotting to undermine and eradicate the churches, and the people’s faith."

Exactly what leftists in the public (governtment) school system are trying to do today.

[VadeRetro]

That's fun to review. The exploits of one gore3000 in that series form a cautionary tale for all creationists.

[No-Kin-To-Monkeys]

The exploits of one gore3000 in that series form a cautionary tale for all creationists.

I have always found him to be an inspiration.

[VadeRetro]

I seem to recall times when you thought he had gone too far. It's hard to forget a moniker like yours. :)

[longshadow]

The increase of information required for a life form to evolve could not happen as this increase in information by itself violates Second Law.

Sparky, the "Second Law" to which you are so eager to appeal, is the "Second Law of Thermodynamics."

It applies to thermodynamic processess, and says absolutely nothing about "information," whatever definition you are using for that term.

So, once again, I repeat the question for the benefit of the lurkers: How much study in Thermodynamics at the collegiate level have you had?

[longshadow]

All physical systems are becoming more disorderly, lose organization and energy and all life will die.

Really?

Someone forgot to tell that to all those Hurricanes that form each year in the Carribean.....

[No-Kin-To-Monkeys]

I seem to recall times when you thought he had gone too far.

Well, yes, there were times when his zeal swept him into rhetorical excesses. But regardless of his rough edges, of which there were a few, one must admire the unshakable strength of his convictions.

[PatrickHenry]

... all those Hurricanes that form each year in the Carribean....

Fool. Those are miracles, excempt from the 2nd law.

[Ol' Sparky]

Famous British paleontologist, Derek V. Ager, an evolutionist:

"The point emerges that if we examine the fossil record in detail, whether at the level of orders or of species, we find-over and over again-not gradual evolution, but the sudden explosion of one group at the expense of another."

Another evolutionist paleontologist Mark Czarnecki comments as follows:

"A major problem in proving the theory has been the fossil record; the imprints of vanished species preserved in theEarth's geological formations. This record has never revealed traces ofDarwin's hypothetical intermediate variants - instead species appear anddisappear abruptly, and this anomaly has fueled the creationist argumentthat each species was created by God."

[VadeRetro]

A good slide show on vertebrate evolution from the tireless Ben Waggoner (Mr. 666). It mentions your nemesis, Mr. Pikaia. How do you make a slide with a photograph of a fossil that's never been found?

Farther on, note the fish-amphibian series. The last slide (34) should be convincing. The earliest true amphibian still has practically the same head as it's lobe-finned fish ancestor.

[VadeRetro]

Click me.

[Ol' Sparky]

If you think a snowflake means the Second Law doesn't apply to physical life systems, then you're the moron that doesn't understand the law. The universe, the plant and the life on the planet are getting more disorderly. All life will eventually die on this planet. All living things eventually get more disorderly, decay and die.

Speaking of the general applicability of the second law to both closed and open systems in general, Harvard scientist Dr. John Ross (not a creationist) affirms: “...there are no known violations of the second law of thermodynamics. Ordinarily the second law is stated for isolated [closed] systems, but the second law applies equally well to open systems ... there is somehow associated with the field of far-from equilibrium phenomena the notion that the second law of thermodynamics fails for such systems. It is important to make sure that this error does not perpetuate itself.”

[Dr. John Ross, Harvard scientist (evolutionist), Chemical and Engineering News, vol. 58, July 7, 1980, p. 40]

[VadeRetro]

But regardless of his rough edges, of which there were a few, one must admire the unshakable strength of his convictions.

They certainly were immune to evidence.

[netman]

Guess the vestigial legs and hips present in both of the animals you mentioned don't mean anything, just useless parts thrown in by God huh?

People who believe this also claim the human tail bone is vestigial.If you are one of these,I'LL PAY TO HAVE YOUR'S REMOVED.

You would quickly discover that it had some vital, current purposes

[Ol' Sparky]

No, Ben is more like the fraudulent scientist that spin the global warming lies. The credible evolutionist admit the fossil record is a major problem. Out of 250 million fossils, there should be millions that show evolution in all species. Yet, evolutionists can't even come close to filling out an evolutionary tree in theory.

You've presented several fossils that have proven absolutely nothing. Like Confuciusornis sanctus that evolutionist can't even agree on whether it means birds did or did not evolve from dinosaura.

Dozens of scientists, including top evolutionists, don't have the blind faith of huckster Ben.

[VadeRetro]

You've presented several fossils that have proven absolutely nothing.

Brazen. Everything you've claimed not to be there is out there already.

[Ol' Sparky]

You and old Ben (does he have the guts to call Enyart? dare try and pass of pikaia as proof of anything?

http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/chordata/cephalo.html

The famous Middle Cambrian Burgess Shale of British Columbia has yielded a few fossils of Pikaia, which appears to be a cephalochordate (although the fossils are still being restudied).

Evolutionists aren't even sure what Mr.Pikaia is (maybe Mr. Pikaia is transexual or really a girl)....