Posted on 01/05/2002 11:55:52 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
There are some out there who pretend they don't know the truth and spread lies, even when they've been told the truth. It is important to let the truth be known so that others will know what we believe and why.
I know how you are feeling because I have been involved in the Neverending Thread for almost a year. Ya wanna know frustration...?!? There are those out there who are lurking and listening and I know for a fact that some have been touched and some have been led back to the Church because of our discussion, I received private e-mails from people who have thanked me for enlightening them and I thank God. So when you get tired of the attacks just realize that you may be saving a soul through God's Grace.
Actually, you seem to completely miss the song and dance. Here it is, and it's all based on the beautiful concept of family (which is entirely fitting since that the Holy Trinity seems to have a familial sense). Let me quote an expert, St. Philip Neri:
"There is no more excellent way to obtain graces from God than to seek them through Mary, because her Divine Son cannot refuse her anything."
Or St. Alphonsus Liguori: "St. Anselm tells us that salvation is occasionally more obtained by calling on the name of Mary than by invoking that of Jesus. This is not because He is not the source and Lord of all graces, but because, when we have recourse to the Mother, and she prays for us, her prayers -- the prayers of a mother -- are more irresistible to Christ than our own."
Consider the Miracle at Cana in John 2. Is the miracle of Cana that Christ turned water into wine? That certainly was miraculous, but it was not the principal miracle.
Our Lord's first miracle would be the opening of his public ministry. By stating "it is not My time," we know that Our Lord did not then intend to begin His public ministry. Given the fact that the beginning of the public ministry of the Incarnate God was probably one of the momentous occasions in all of human history, its date of all dates must have been fixed from all eternity by Almighty God.
Yet, at the request of the Holy Virgin, Christ did perform the miracle (which in itself was to solve a trivial problem and was of little or no public consequence). He began His public ministry ahead of schedule, surely against the desires of his human Nature, since beginning the public ministry earlier meant that the road to the Cross would begin earlier.
In other words, God, whose essence does not admit of change, actually changed His mind. Absolutely amazing and a great mystery in itself -- all at the request of his mother.
Let's think about why. The reason is largely that the mother and the Son so closely and completely identify with each other. For example, since the Holy Spirit is the father of Christ, all of the DNA of Christ's human nature comes only from his mother. They must be extremely similar in all respects and have a particularly strong mother-child bond -- a bond which psychology teaches is, when healthy, the strongest possible in human relations. And since Christ is perfect God and perfect Man, it follows that He is a perfect Son. The power and efficacy of the Virgin's intercession is not that she is somehow above or superior to God. It is that this perfect love of a Son cannot deny Her anything.
Quick question. Which requires a greater leap of faith?
1. That a God would strip Himself of the appearances of His Divinity, being born in a bleak backwater in total obscurity; or
2. That the God-Man, having already stripped Himself of the appearances of His Divinity, would complete the gift by stripping Himself of the appearances of His Humanity on the Holy Altar?
If you say #2, your logic needs a little work. A God stripping Himself of the appearances of His Divinity would be a harder-to-believe event than stripping Himself of the appearances of His Humanity, since divinity is by nature superior to humanity.
Your humility is overwhelming kid..most of us lowly nurses have forgotten more than you will ever know..
If your pride stops you from hearing them you will regret it kiddo..I and many of us have diagnose things missed by the docs...See kiddo AFTER we mop the floors ( which BTW is actually housekeeping and in your pride you fail to see that as Lister would have as important in infection control),those lowly nurses are trained obresvers...some thing you will never do in YOUR pride.
OHHHHH BTW how high is your IQ? My RN daughters is 156....I know she can clean the floor with ya
If you graduate get back to us !
Those that deny the Real Presence are the ones Ignatius was talking to when he said, as one who was told the meaning of John 6 and the Real Presence by John himself,
Those, therefore, who speak against this gift of God, incur death in the midst of their disputes. But it were better for them to treat it with respect, that they also might rise again. It is fitting, therefore, that ye should keep aloof from such persons, and not to speak of them either in private or in public,
I guess Ignatius may have been right on that last line, for to some you can reveal the Truth, yet they prefer the interpretations of scripture of men over those of God through the only Church He gave the promise, "I give you the keys of the Kingdom. What you hold bound on earth will be held bound in Heaven."
Besides, the only scripture fundamentalists DO NOT TAKE LITERALLY is this one:
John 6: 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. 59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. 60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? 61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? 62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. (KJV)
Ignatius, and ALL the early Christians, believed this literally. The Reformers rejected it.
Therefore NOTHING the reformers say, and not a single scripture verse with your interpretation, holds any merit whatsoever.
You reject the Eucharist, you reject the clear words of Christ.
You reject the clear words of Christ and the clear understanding of the apostles and earliest Christians on this issue, then I have no compunction nor duty to listen to the rest of your protestant ideas on salvation.
You reject the Eucharist, once you had this Heavenly Bread, you imperil your salvation, as John 6 and Ignatius prove.
Only God can judge.
Wanta give me your scripture citation on that kiddo
I am a physician and a surgeon, and I suggest you stear clear of the Eucharist on this thread.
Ignatius means nothing to me
let us REALLY look at the scripture you have chosen to us (in context) John 6
30 So they asked him, "What miraculous sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do?
31 Our forefathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written: `He gave them bread from heaven to eat.'[3] "
32 Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world."
34 "Sir," they said, "from now on give us this bread."
35 Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty.
36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe.
37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.
38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.
39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.
40 For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."
There is no salvation in that unleavened bread Proud2b, Salvation is ONLY in the blood shed by Jesus Christ for the remission of sin.
Adding Eucharist is adding a work my friend..just like adding Baptism and confession and confirmation and mandated church attendance....all the work of man. God tells us those act are filthy menstrual rags.
If you are seeking the truth and are not afraid to be wrong ,I would encourage you to do a word study on "bread" and see how God used it as a typology of Christ all through the OT (As Jesus taught right HERE in your very own proof text)
Then go and read Genesis and Exodus and the signs and symbols of covenants..
I do not believe you will do this I must say...but I offer it to you for the sake of truth.
BTW I have been told this is a good Calvinist scripture.*grin*
Well chances are my daughter is smarter than you too:>)....in fact several of my kids (I do not speak for myself..I am dumb)>
You say this after you tell me my failure to agree with you leads to damnation....seems you are the one that raised the stakes on my few words
Ma'am, may I say that you at least seem to have "issues" with rash judgment? There are basically two types of nurses. The first type are those who are knowledgeable and committed to their patients. Anyone in health care has a lot to learn from these nurses.
The second type are those and those who are cynical, burnt out, and a real public nuisance. Anyone in health care should flee from this type as a vampire from the crucifix. Now, which type are you?
You also erroneously assume (yes, I am shocked, shocked!) that I am a "kid." Actually, I am what is known as a "non-traditional" medical student, having practiced law for a number of years before beginning medical school.
OHHHHH BTW how high is your IQ? My RN daughters is 156....I know she can clean the floor with ya.
Uh-huh. Well, I checked with modesty and she forbade me from revealing my score. At the same time, may I ask you where you came up with the number "156"? I only ask because IQ scores are never given as a single number. They are given in ranges (e.g., in what you report as your daughter's case, the score would be something like 150-159). So may you need to double-check that one. Just a word to the wise.
I will answer your question if you answer my question. My question is: where do the Scriptures themselves state that all articles of faith, belief, and practice must be explicitly stated in Scripture?
That "little girl has been "tested since age 3. At 18 months she said me" Mom the sky is blue it is going to be a nice day"....mom reacted with a call to a Psychologist /CSW that was a friend...we decided to delay testing till 3....at that time her cumulative score was 150...( The highest my friend a private school consultant had ever seen) She was educated for 12 years in a gifted school program last cumulative score that I requested (she was tested every other year) was the 6th grade where it was 156).No need to double check, I know she could clean the floor with you..no mop needed
BTW the best medical care I have ever received is from my Nurse Practitioner....so if you ever graduate you may want to consider putting one in your office to help you out:>)
Thank you for the bio. The question remains, however, why someone gave you a single number, since scores are never reported as such. Again, you may wish to double-check, since it sounds as though the person who reported this to you may not have had a firm grasp of the test, its protocols, or its relevant applications.
Just curious -- do you resent, have feelings of jealousy, or harbor bitterness against physicians? Actually, never mind. It's not important.
1 Timothy 1:3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia--remain in Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
1 Timothy 4:1 Be Faithful to Your Spiritual Calling Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
1 Timothy 4:6 If you instruct the brethren in these things, you will be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished in the words of faith and of the good doctrine which you have carefully followed.
1 Timothy 4:16 Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.
1 Timothy 6:3 ...If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness,
2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
Titus 1:9 holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict.
Titus 2:1 Qualities of a Sound Church Qualities of a Sound Church But as for you, speak the things which are proper for sound doctrine:
Hebrews 13:9 Do not be carried about with various and strange doctrines. For it is good that the heart be established by grace, not with foods which have not profited those who have been occupied with them.
The doctrine they delivered was to be the doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ. That doctrine stands complete in itself.
Now you can add anything you want to your articles of faith.The itching ears of many demand it.....We see the apostacy of doing that all around us.
So show me the scripture source of your quote ...it is itchy ears stuff ya know??
The scores were combined scores....a common practice in WNY 27 years ago.The scores came from various testers not one..both group and individual testing.. (the 156 was a group test administer by a school psychologist. the first one was by a woman that was a professional with 4 degrees, Psychology, Masters in Psychology, Social Work and a masters in Social Work....State certified as a tester)
Her younger brother .now an Engineer tested at 130 (again combined) in 6th grade. I am a trained health professional (when I am not mopping floors) I worked in mental health for years,as a counselor (licensed by the state) and clinical supervisor. I do understand the divisions on the IQ tests,as well as the implications of a large variance.
Hold on, I need to put on my high boots.
Intellect is purely a gift from God, and not something I revel in. As are all our talents, treasures, and abilities. Your daughter probably is smarter than I am. I have met many smart people and know better than to think I am just a little brighter than the dullest bulb. You are the one that smacked down our med student on this thread, not me. And again, I ask you, please steer clear of the Eucharist. I am not able to maintain any semblance of charity or patience when someone attacks Christ in His Eucharist.
I asked you not to attack the Eucharist, my friend. I see that you chose instead to do so. More's the pity. I won't bother with a response. You would deny the Truth of the Eucharist no matter how eloquent or scriptural or logical the response. I'll pray for you, and I humbly ask you to do the same for me. God Bless.
Well you are alot smarter than I am. As doctor you should know the "nurses evil eye" :>) The one reserved for young interns and residents to keep them humble....it was intended as a bit of a joke....
But the slap back was a hit at a group of women that doctors had best heed if they want to be successful in the maintaince of their patients health. The trouble is as our young Medical student will find out those nurses know many things he does not.It is to his advantage to let them teach him a bit, and then listen to their observations after he is in practice. It is not much of a health care team if the main player thinks he can play the game alone!
I did not "attack " the Eucharist ,I gave my opinion on it. I had made a brief statement on it..YOU chose to make it a matter of salvation......and so I responded to you.
Communion is an important sacrament to Protestants too. We view it as a reaffirmation of our covenant relationship with Christ.It is holy !
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.