Posted on 01/02/2002 1:15:38 PM PST by Theresa
This is speaking, obviously, directly to you.
Hank
Saying that the Word of God is based upon interpretation is just like saying we have a "living Constitution."
Have you read where scripture interprets scripture?
No matter. I said it, and I stand by it. All unbelievers and faux-Christians go directly to hell.
Got it? You can jump on me all you want, makes me no nevermind. The words I use are not mine, so in essence, you are attacking the Word.
Take that up with the Author.
The verses I gave from Isaiah show that man cannot compact God to fit their own ideological bent. His ways are unfathomable outside of what He directly reveals to us. So, in other words, give it up. We mortal men can never decipher His mind. But know that He never contradicts Himself.
I can only give you what He has said. I didn't say it, HE DID.
Deal with it. Just like I deal with it.
It is through the acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. Period.
The New Testament couldn't be clearer on this.
Then there's the issue of apostolic succession. Is true apostolic succession determined by the lineage of ceremonial ordinations, or is it determined by the lineage of pure doctrine?
Preferably one would have both, but, I would have to argue that a doctrinal lineage is more important than a ceremonial lineage. Jesus' words "for whoever is not against us is for us...Mark 9:40" argue in favor of a doctrinal lineage.
I don't think I want to do that, thank you. I see what it did to you, and I don't want that to happen to me.
I didn't know a thin skin was part of being a Calvinist.
(If you look down you will see one of your legs is a little longer than the other.)
Hank
What do you and your wife believe now?
Becky
i.e. v:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Of course I understand why you like changing this verse:)
Becky
The bible teaches us that those who truly seek him WILL FIND HIM. It also tells us in Roms. 1:20 That man is without excuse. So I feel it's pretty clear, it has to be, because He tells us in 1 John 5:13 that we can know for sure we are saved. Now the judgement of unbelievers does rest in God's hands, but we can make judgements about peoples beliefs being according to the bible or not.
You know, I look at it as, if God had given any kind of indication to us humans that he was going to cut us some slack in different areas, we would have taken unheard of advantage of him and pushed to the limit, we pretty much do that now, right. So he had to be very strict as a parent who disciplines a child sets guidlines but doesn't tell the kid he will give him some leeway.
So yes the final judgemet is God's, but he left us enough information in his Word to know exactly where he wants us to be in or beliefs, service and worship of Him.
Becky
What do you and your wife believe now?
Well, for one thing, we believe in, "invincible ignorance," which we see every day almost everywhere. It is now the main result of a public school education.
But in fact, I had never heard of that as a theological explanation of anything, though it perfectly fits with many other fine Catholic superstitions.
Our beliefs would be called Protestant or Christian by others, and my wife usually just answers Christian or born-again Christian to most who ask her "what she is." However, we neither belong to or attend an organized church. Our religious beliefs are based solely on the Bible, and we do not accept any of the doctrines smuggled into Christian dogma by Augustine and propagated by Calvin, Luther, and Wesley.
Basically, we believe the Bible is inerrant and divinely inspired, the deity of Jesus Christ, the blood atonement, (but not "as payment for sin"), salvation through faith in the finished work of Christ, (but believe salvation actually changes a person and that continuing a life of sin proves one isn't saved), the literal return of Christ, (but not the rapture) and so on. I never call myself a Christian and believe ultimately all organized "Christian" churches become apostate and are well on their way now.
We are very happy that you have escaped the clutches of superstition, whatever you beleive now. Which, by the way, we would be interested in knowing.
Hank
(For a somewhat harsh and sarcastice view of my beleifs, see:
If you find it offensive or disconcerting, just ignore it.
You yourself had to perform a 'work' by saying "yes"; as Mary did, to God. The Gospel is loaded with people who accepted, such as Saul of Taursus, and those who rejected such as the rich young man in the Gospel of Luke.
There are many books about the subject that will explain much better than I can, and provide Biblical reference.
My husband and I are Independent Fundamental Bible Believers. We beleive that salvation is thru trusting in the sacrafice that Jesus made for us on the cross to take away our sins.(John 14:6) Nothing I do will save me, or keep me saved(Gal.), I am in his hands now, and he will never forsake me.(John 10:28)
I have learned more about the catholic faith in the last 9 months from being on FR then I ever did in school, of course all the catholics say everything I say I learned is not what the catholics really believe, I was either not paying attention, or that during the era I was in school there was alot of bad teaching going on in some schools, I just misunderstood, or was just plain stupid. I graduated in 1972, But from reading these threads I don't think even the catholics know what the church teaches exactly.
I just found out on another thread, that the "Rock" in Matt. 16:16, is now being taught that it was not only Peter, but Peter and his confession, That is totally contradictory to everything I have heard up until yesterday. Supposedly the new catechism has changed the wording. How does anyone stay in something that changes so drastically from day to day. My whole family, other then husband and children, are still devout catholics, and I am just trying to find a way to reach them. But they won't discuss it.
Oh well, it's been nice talking to you, God Bless.
Becky
Becky
Regarding the sacraments giving us grace, when Jesus was baptized the Holy Spirit descended upon Him. When Saul was baptized 'there fell from his eyes as it were scales' (Acts 9) indicating that his spiritual blindness was over. These are examples of the grace, supernatural grace, working in the sacraments.
In confirmation we also recieve grace. At pentecost the apostles recieved the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit. The apostles Peter and John laid their hands on the Christians in Samaria, and they recieved the Holy Ghost (Acts 8. 11-17)
In the Holy Eucharist Jesus gives us Himself "The bread that I will give you is my flesh." "Except you eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His blood, you shall not have life in you. He that eateth My flesh and drinketh My blood, hath life everlasting and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and My blood is drink indeed."
We believe that the manna in the Old Testament was a prefigurment of the Holy Eucharist. The manna fed the Israelites on their journey through the desert. It was a supernatural food. The supernatural bread given to Elias gave him the strength to travel forty days to Mount Horeb. The multiplication of the loaves and the water made wine at Canna also show us that grace is working in this sacrement.
The effects of recieving Holy Communion and the grace derived from same, have filled volumes. The grace in us is the "life" that Jesus mentions when He says that unless you eat His flesh and drink His blood you have no life in you.
Becky
It's nice being catholic because we can draw on 2000 years of history, tradition & writings on the subjects.
Now that we've had a dialogue I would hope that even though you may not agree with what the Church teaches, you can see the biblical reference for what we do (as humble as what I have written is)
Like I said, there are many writers who can present the material in a much better way than I can.
I am not trying to be disagreeable, but I would like to point out that your history, traditions and writngs are from man.
It's nice being what you call a protestent, I call an IFBB (Indepentdent Fundamental Bible Believe) because I trust in the Holy Spirit to teach me and He is truly infalible which I would hope you would agree with")
Becky
Thanks! Hank
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