STRANGE SYMBIOSIS – ISRAEL & ANTI-SEMITISM

Antiwar.com ^ | December 28, 2001 | Justin Raimondo

[Cachelot]

You are reduced to looking for typos, Caughing-snot? That's a new low for you. LOL

Hehehe. If you remember, it was you who brought up typos once upon a time. Seems you have tremendous problems with written English, maddie. Is it the vodka fumes that have you so dizzy?

But hey, let's talk about that twenty "mislaid" billion, maddie, which your mob probably knows a thing or two about ;).

[madrussian]

Apparently you don't know the difference between not being able to spell, like you, and simply not paying attention to the wrong key pressed.

As far as misplaced billions, I believe your tribesmen dual citizens Berezovsky and Gusinsky must know a lot about that.

[Askel5]

Unlike Askel therefore (correct me if I am wrong), I do see this consolidation of Jewish financial and political power and its focus upon the Temple as part of God's plan

Without getting into the effect of the observer on the observed and other bits of quantum physics that might better explain the intersection time and eternity ...

I am not a Calvinist, pagan or heretic and do not categorize "evil", evil men, or evil intent as "God's Will".

That said, I think it's entirely possible our creator has a fairly good idea how things will turn out, what choices we will make ... even if this clarity on his part is due solely to his knowing "in advance" our potential for choosing His or our own will and what acts we shall commit as a consequence of that choice.

The operation of prophecy has its place, then, despite the absolute truth that is our being possessed of free will.

Cars have windshields as well as rearview mirrors. So do civilizations. However, our rearward, Epimethean vision is far stronger than our forward, Promethean one. We have more archivists than prophets. For archivists see through a microscope, sharply, but prophets see through a glass, darkly.

Yet even the little the prophets see is of great importance to us. It is like the little but all-important view that a driver sees when peering through a tiny hole of light in a muddy windshield when the car is accelerating through thick fog over rocks and between abysses-in other words, when the situation is like that of our civilization.

The gift of prophecy, confined to a small number in Old Testament times, was offered to all Christians once the Holy Spirit, the One who makes and inspires prophets, was spread through the Church and into the world in the New Covenant. It is possible therefore without absurdity to call C. S. Lewis a prophet. Let us consult the writings of this most popular Christian author of our age with that hope in mind and look for some Lewis-light on our civilizational teeter, we who stand poised at the brink of spiritual suicide.

How to Save Western Civilization (Part I: A Philosphy of History

I believe it's a mistake to believe that it is for men to bring about -- by whatever means necessary -- certain prophecies. It seems altogether possible that this is precisely the abuse of free will that, while appearing to conform to what they assume is "God's Will" for its having been prophesied by holy men, actually is a failure of obedience to God's will.

I do not believe it can possibly be true that terrorists and globalists should establish the true Zion.

Rather, in all my arguments, I trust it's clear that I believe all men -- regardless the avenue by which they approach God, his truth and his justice (as long as they are obedient and faithful to what they know to be true) have a certain obligation to abide by God's law as written in the heart of every man.

Clearly, the sentiments, actions, rationalization, intent and hate exhibited in such abundance on this thread and others suggests that some -- Jew, Christian, "atheist", what have you -- are not following their consciences.

The fact the forked tongue our own nation speaks of "faith-based partnerships" and "Holy War" ... not to mention washes down with a spoonful of Scripture federal funding for research on "Excess" human lives ... ought to be a wake-up call that things aren't what they seem.

(The United States is just slow -- about a century or so -- to the game of concertedly manipulating the faithful on religious terms.)

I see no reason why we should recognize as just the establishment and sustaining of a nation confected primarily by militant atheists and globalists who capitalized -- and still capitalize -- on a Divine Promise to the Jews. I think the Jews -- particularly the memory of those who suffered and died under National Socialist and Communist atrocities -- are being used to great effect by the pragmatists who seem to have won us over to their particular bit of alchemy where "God's Will" is concerned.

[Cachelot]

and simply not paying attention to the wrong key pressed.

Attention deficiency, maddie? The vodka will do that to you, you know. Rots your brain. If course, if you have a nut where that was supposed to be, it just pickles it :))).

[NixNatAVanG InDaBurgh]

Listen. That was an example of the kind of frolicing you and your chums like to espouse. It was 1996. THIS year and in 2002, we are EXPANDING aid to Russia, including paying them off so their scientists won't sell nukes to rogue nations...like they have already. So what is the point of your continuous bashing of Israel, when the country you claim to be from is not the be all and end all heaven on earth you seem to be saying it is and receives far more in just about everything from the US than Israel can ever hope to? Most of it amounts to blackmail money.
It makes no sense and I don't get your thing with Jews either. Since most of us on this board are conservatives, you begin to sound like a leaping liberal with all this hogwash. You got a specific b*tch, get it out and quit being so rude and obnoxious. I didn't start out that way with you. I expected reason and got insults. Insults are fine if that is your only interest in this country, but it doesn't happen to be mine. If the fact that I am Jewish bothers you so tremendously, you are quite welcome to ignore me completely and I will gladly do the same with you.

[Justin Raimondo]

Get help, Sabra, before it's too late and you wind up in the JDL, if you aren't there already. Your chauvinism is a perfect mirror image of the fascist mentality: intolerant, arrogant, authoritarian, contemptuous of all opposing views, and frighteningly hateful. This is only natural, of course, as the Revisionist school of Zionism traces its antecedents back to Mussolini and the Falange.

[NixNatAVanG InDaBurgh]

And your point?

[Cachelot]

And your point?

Justin's single point is on top of his head. Twin of maddie, I believe :).

[Sabertooth]

I believe it's a mistake to believe that it is for men to bring about -- by whatever means necessary -- certain prophecies. It seems altogether possible that this is precisely the abuse of free will that, while appearing to conform to what they assume is "God's Will" for its having been prophesied by holy men, actually is a failure of obedience to God's will.

Maybe, maybe not. Certainly a possibility. However...

I do not believe it can possibly be true that terrorists and globalists should establish the true Zion....

I see no reason why we should recognize as just the establishment and sustaining of a nation confected primarily by militant atheists and globalists who capitalized -- and still capitalize -- on a Divine Promise to the Jews. I think the Jews -- particularly the memory of those who suffered and died under National Socialist and Communist atrocities -- are being used to great effect by the pragmatists who seem to have won us over to their particular bit of alchemy where "God's Will" is concerned. .

While I don't think I entirely agree with your characterizations of "terrorists and globalists," let's assume it's correct, for the moment

Aren't there occasions in the Old Testament where God uses those who aren't particularly righteous as the instruments to effect His Will? The Assyrians and the Chaldeans come to mind.

I believe that there are also occasions where God tells the disobedient of Israel words to the effect that "Not for your own sake, but for Mine will I do this."

So, it seems to me that the flaws, failures, and even the crimes of those who brought about the modern state of Israel don't necessarily rule out the possibility that this national rebrith is God's Will. No?

[Sabramerican]

Once upon a time a pretentious lightweight with delusions of consequence and a pretend ability to reason, paused from his obsession to propagandize against the people and State of Israel and to heap his scorn upon her defenders, to state: "Ad hominem attacks are usually a last resort". With one more such wisdom you would have told as many truths as a broken clock.

WOW, Fonzie. Zionism (Two thousand years of longing of the Jewish people to return to Zion) is traced back to Mussolini.

I couldn't have wished for anything better. A Perry Mason moment. Capt.Queeg discovering who stole the strawberries. Nothing compares to you unhinging, striped naked to your disgusting core.

[montag813]

I am certain, montag813 is not offended. He knows, as you should by now, that there is nothing offensive about the term. It means Gentiles. Period

"Goy" is what Jews call non-Jews. I am not offended when they use it.

I think "schwartze" (sp ?) is considered a bit offensive by blacks, although it is just resembles the German/Yidish word for "black" (ie. Schwartzkopf = blackhead).

[montag813]

Travelling is OK under any circumstances. It not one of the sabbath like Jewish holidays. Orthodox fast, but it's nowhere near the gravity of Yom Kippur.

Sabra- Thanks for the correction, however this was also on a Saturday morning...travelling during Sabbath is not cool, right?

[Sabramerican]

Right. But, Tisha B'Av can never fall on a Sabbath.

[montag813]

I will find out on which "holiday" this transgression occured. The friend who told me about it is a rabbi, and he was pissed at the time.

[Justin Raimondo]

Stern’s single-minded belief, that the only solution to the Jewish catastrophe in Europe was the end of British domination of Palestine, had a logical conclusion. They could not defeat Britain with their own puny forces, so they looked to her enemies for salvation. They came into contact with an Italian agent in Jerusalem, a Jew who worked for the British police, and in September 1940 they drew up an agreement whereby Mussolini would recognise a Zionist state in return for Sternist co-ordination with the Italian Army when the country was to be invaded. [5] How seriously either Stern or the Italian agent took these discussions has been debated. Stern feared that the agreement might be part of a British provocation. [6] As a precaution, Stern sent Naftali Lubentschik to Beirut, which was still controlled by Vichy, to negotiate directly with the Axis. Nothing is known of his dealings with either Vichy or the Italians, but in January 1941 Lubentschik met two Germans – Rudolf Rosen and Otto von Hentig, the philo-Zionist, who was then head of the Oriental Department of the German Foreign Office. After the war a copy of the Stern proposal for an alliance between his movement and the Third Reich was discovered in the files of the German Embassy in Turkey. The Ankara document called itself a “Proposal of the National Military Organisation (Irgun Zvai Leumi) Concerning the Solution of the Jewish Question in Europe and the Participation of the NMO in the War on the side of Germany.” (The Ankara document is dated 11 January 1941. At that point the Sternists still thought of themselves as the “real” Irgun, and it was only later that they adopted the Fighters for the Freedom of Israel – Lohamei Herut Yisrael – appellation.) In it the Stern group told the Nazis:

[Justin Raimondo]

The NMO, which is well-acquainted with the goodwill of the German Reich government and its authorities towards Zionist activity inside Germany and towards Zionist emigration plans, is of the opinion that: 1.Common interests could exist between the establishment of a New Order in Europe in conformity with the German concept, and the true national aspirations of the Jewish people as they are embodied by the NMO. 2.Cooperation between the new Germany and a renewed volkish-national Hebrium would be possible and 3.The establishment of the historical Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis, and bound by a treaty with the German Reich, would be in the interest of a maintained and strengthened future German position of power in the Near East.

[Justin Raimondo]

Of course, the Stern Gang (NMO)was the psychotic fringe of the Zionist movement, but that seems to fit your profile to a tee.

[Justin Raimondo]

The Revisionist school of Zionism is historically linked to fascism, and National Socialism.

[Justin Raimondo]

That's the irony of all this name-calling of anyone who disagrees with your agenda as "Nazis," "anti-Semites," etc. But then fanatics are immune to irony.....