Posted on 12/07/2001 10:15:51 PM PST by madrussian
Don't forget Marian Zacharski, who could write a book entitled "How to Steal US Military Secrets and Get Off Scot Free."
One could interpret your "Duh" as a suggestions that the same would have happened in Russia.
So between Feburary and October 1917, the Jews moved enmasse to Moscow, raised an army and overthrew the Kerensky government? Do you really believe something so absurd?
It does sound absurd if your scenario is the only one conceivable. The fact that the overwhelming majority of the Bolsheviks in Lenin's government were Jewish is sufficient to realize who were the main Bolsheviks supporters and ideologues.
That is like saying the fact that the membership of the National Black Republican Network are black means that most blacks are Republican.
Most Jews were not communist in 1917. National politics was a foreign concept to most Jews back then.
The Russian Revolution began in Moscow and St, Petersburg, places where there were virtually no Jews, rather than Kiev, Odessa or Minsk, or, for that matter, Poland, where Jews were numerous.
The places where Jews lived were not centers of resistance to the Provisional Government of Kerensky. There were Jews associated with Lenin, but there were also many Jews associated with Kerensky.
My "duh" meant that it would pointless to have a pogrom in a place where there were no Jews. The pogroms took place in Ukraine because that was where the Jews were.
Do you understand now?
What does that have to do with Zacharski's guilt and the fact that he still owes the US Government a lot of years in prison?
For your analogy to work, Bolshevik government would have to be called Jewish faction of Bolshevik government.
Most Jews were not communist in 1917. National politics was a foreign concept to most Jews back then.
You mean members of a party? Of course not. Party members were always a minority. Sympathizing with destruction of Russia and perceiving it as their tribal revenge? Quite possibly. Tribal interests have always been paramount in Jewish community.
The Russian Revolution began in Moscow and St, Petersburg, places where there were virtually no Jews, rather than Kiev, Odessa or Minsk, or, for that matter, Poland, where Jews were numerous.
Jews were numerous in Menshevik and Bolshevik movements. History is often done by militant minorities, with majority being rather apathetic or not knowing better.
The places where Jews lived were not centers of resistance to the Provisional Government of Kerensky. There were Jews associated with Lenin, but there were also many Jews associated with Kerensky.
Provisional government was overthrown by Bolsheviks, and we know who were in charge there.
Do you understand now?
Are you saying that the only reason the pogroms didn't take place in Russia because there were few Jews? And that they took place in Ukraine because that's where the Jews were? LOL!
Probably because of hormonal needs. She was young, no parents supervision and the idea of the New Soviet Man probably appealed to her.
It seems that the reviewer is really confused on the issue of the anti-Semitism. The Soviet nation is fighting fascism and at the same time is anti-Semitic. Hmm, kind of mutually exclusive statement.
You: You mean members of a party?
No, I meant not communist or communist sympathizers. National politics was a foreign concept to Jews in that era. The rabbis advised Jews not to become involved in the politics of a gentile nation.
Tribal interests have always been paramount in Jewish community.
Avoiding pogroms was the only constant motivating factor in the Jewish community of the Russian Empire. Very few Jews were interested in any radical revolution.
Jews were numerous in Menshevik and Bolshevik movements. History is often done by militant minorities, with majority being rather apathetic or not knowing better.
History is often portrayed by the majority population in a way that scapegoats minorities for all problems. You have yet to explain how the Jews, who were not very numerous in Russia, were able to instigate a communist revolution (according to your theory) while they were not able to instigate one in Ukraine, Belarus, or Poland, where they made up a much larger percentage of the population. Have you considered the possibility that most Jews simply were not interested in communism?
Provisional government was overthrown by Bolsheviks, and we know who were in charge there.
You have presented no evidence that most Jews favored the Bolsheviks over the Provisional Government.
I don't know her maiden name, but her first name was Wanda, if that helps.
National politics as full participants, maybe. National politics that can be perceived as self-defence and opposing their "opressors", I wouldn't be so sure. Besides, there is a huge gap between what some rabbis may profess somewhere, let alone that that teaching is open to interpretation what it really means, and real life.
Avoiding pogroms was the only constant motivating factor in the Jewish community of the Russian Empire. Very few Jews were interested in any radical revolution.
There must have been different notions of "radicality". American Jewish neocons are much more radical and agressive than traditional conservatives, for example. But to them, they are just normal and logical. Bolshevik revolution was "avoiding pogroms" and "taking some revenge" for some, I am sure.
History is often portrayed by the majority population in a way that scapegoats minorities for all problems.
It's a two-way street and the same can be said about minorities who often believe they are victims all around. I'd rather take an objective approach, where every side is assigned some blame. Wouldn't you? Or in other approach, either side is blameless and is simply acting in their own interests that may diverge. But that's not what Jewish supremacists have in mind, to them their tribe is beyond reproach, and "anti-semitism" is some universal illness that's guaranteed to exist everywhere just because "Jews are special and misunderstood".
You have yet to explain how the Jews, who were not very numerous in Russia, were able to instigate a communist revolution (according to your theory) while they were not able to instigate one in Ukraine, Belarus, or Poland, where they made up a much larger percentage of the population.
First portion of your question is more technical, whether a minority can affect the course of history in any major way. I already answered that question somewhere. As for the second part, it's a topic of separate discussion. As far as I know, Jewish kommies were active in those countries too, and we had a discussion on how kommies were cheered in Poland in 1939. Also, could local population be more hostile to the movements that were headed by Jews, whose tricks they were up to? Also, Jewish kommies did have some successe in Hungary and Germany.
Have you considered the possibility that most Jews simply were not interested in communism?
It's possible, since most is only more than 50%. And what does "not interested" mean? Does sympathetic with the goals or using it for tribal goals qualify as "interested"?
Unlike Inyokern, who diplomatically answered my question about how Jews regard Jesus, saying that he was a "charismatic preacher". What he doesn't say is what really counts. LOL!
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