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Tortured, Bloody, Sickening . . . But Effective -- Pro-Life Group Pricks Communters' Consciences
Los Angeles Lay Catholic Mission ^ | 10/01 | Robert Kumpel

Posted on 11/28/2001 2:48:37 PM PST by Caleb1411

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To: Hajman
Amniocentesis (sp?) can diagnose many conditions with absolute certainty. If you're interested, go do your own research-- I did mine when I had my children fifteen years ago. (Don't forget-- childbirth itself carries both immediate and long-term risks for the mother, which, however small, must be weighed against the even smaller risk of a mis-diagnosis.) The technology has only gotten better since then. Moreover, for hard-line right-to-lifers, that's ONLY the baby's right to life-- for all they care the mother's can die right and left, no problem. I have a major problem with this attitude.

The way I figure it, God gave us brains as well as hearts and intended us to use both. Sophisticated moral judgments aren't the easiest course, which is exactly why the fanatics aren't willing to make them. That's a serious moral failing right there.

81 posted on 11/29/2001 12:09:00 PM PST by walden
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To: Tuscaloosa Goldfinch
Cunningham isn't out blocking clinics, he isn't shooting doctors, in fact, he rejects the use of violence.

You make a good point. He could be doing a lot worse.

Even if you disagree, as you obviously do, with both his message and the way he delivers it, will you not defend, nevertheless, his right to free speech?

You bet your butt I will defend his right under the First Amendment to do what he is doing.

82 posted on 11/29/2001 12:22:24 PM PST by pcl
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To: Aquinasfan
I had the same initial reaction. Then I thought of those LA bank robbers in body armor who held off an entire SWAT team for the better part of a day.

Same principle. And a reasonable principle. But poorly applied. I don't think we have to worry about these folks robbing a bank.

Listen to your intial instincts, it almost always works for me. It's not reasonable, it's actually highly unreasonable.

I can't have armor on my car because the LA Police were too unprepared to have high powered rifles during a bank robbery?

That's like saying I can't have a reinforced door on my house because a SWAT team might want to bash it in some day.

It's the same argument the gun snatchers use. Only police and "special" elite people get to have certain protections, while the unwashed learn to do without.

I shouldn't have to ask anyone's permission to take measures to protect mine or my families life, nor should you and neither should these folks.

83 posted on 11/29/2001 12:31:49 PM PST by AAABEST
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To: walden
pro-choicers insist that there is NEVER a time or condition under which abortion should be disallowed

I can only speak for this particular Pro-Choicer. I would be willing to accept more restrictive laws on abortion. I have outlined my feelings about that in another thread.

The problem with many Pro-Choicers is the feeling the if you "give them an inch, they will take a mile." It is exaclty like Gun Control. We know that the Gun Grabbers want to make all firearms vanish. We know that each little restriction that we agree to, no matter how sensible it may seem (trigger lock for example), is just another step towards grabbing all guns. You have to "hold them off at the pass."

84 posted on 11/29/2001 12:32:26 PM PST by pcl
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To: Principled
I mean, would pro life change its mind if choicers started a media campaign intended to shock and bring attention to their point of view?

I, for one, would never approve of Pro-Choicers doing such a thing in my name. On another thread about this issue, there were some Pro-lifers who did not agree with the trucks. If you look at that poll, 7% of the voters selected "I may be against abortion, but this is too much."

85 posted on 11/29/2001 12:38:19 PM PST by pcl
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To: Principled
I mean, would pro life change its mind if choicers started a media campaign intended to shock and bring attention to their point of view?

How? By showing pictures of women with no children?

This is a feel-good way to do nothing about stopping abortions.

Do you not think it possible that even one woman considering having an abortion might change her mind after seeing the images?

86 posted on 11/29/2001 12:43:00 PM PST by danneskjold
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To: AAABEST
Am I to understand that in CA you have to "apply" to have your vehicle armor-plated?

Who would be most likely to do it? You, or the Crips and Bloods?

87 posted on 11/29/2001 1:00:15 PM PST by Ditto
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To: Principled
It is odd that some pro life advocates would think that this message, however grotesque and shocking, would have any effect whatsoever on the choice crowd. I mean, would pro life change its mind if choicers started a media campaign intended to shock and bring attention to their point of view?

Cunningham said he wasn't after the 20% hardcore pro-aborts. He was after the 60% who hadn't made up their minds (paraphrasing).

88 posted on 11/29/2001 1:22:28 PM PST by choirboy
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To: Caleb1411
Q. HOW DID YOU DISPOSE OF AN ABORTED BABY?

A. In our clinics, we put them down the garbage disposal. We used the heavy duty model. Some second and third trimester babies' muscle structure is so strong that the baby will not come apart, so they must be disposed of through trash receptables.

--- Carol Everett, former owner of 2 abortion clinics. See the full text here

89 posted on 11/29/2001 1:26:56 PM PST by Skooz
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To: BibChr
Does my heart good to read this.........BUMP
90 posted on 11/29/2001 1:37:15 PM PST by Southflanknorthpawsis
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To: pcl
"I can only speak for this particular Pro-Choicer. I would be willing to accept more restrictive laws on abortion. "

Then the debate clearly needs much more involvement from people like you and me.

"You have to "hold them off at the pass.""

That mind-set is precisely why there never will be more involvement by people like you and me. I can tell you, I've been following this issue for at least twenty-five years, and the debate has only gotten less rational, not more. Positions have become both more extreme and more hardened-- the trend is not encouraging.

91 posted on 11/29/2001 1:37:25 PM PST by walden
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To: AAABEST
I can't have armor on my car because the LA Police were too unprepared to have high powered rifles during a bank robbery?

Good point. You've moved me to "undecided."

92 posted on 11/29/2001 1:45:53 PM PST by Aquinasfan
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To: pcl
So far it looks like the trucks are doing more damage to the prolife cause than good.

Hey, the reality of it is disgusting and it's high time people had to confront the reality of it. It may disgust someone, but at least that someone will have a better understanding of the issue at hand. I hope the campaign continues.

The media has no problem showing us the "innocent victims" in Afghanistan or wherever we happen to be fighting evil at any given moment, but they flat don't want this evil shown for what it is, do they?

MM

93 posted on 11/29/2001 1:51:11 PM PST by MississippiMan
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To: walden
Take heart. If you read the Gallop Polls there is a vast middle ground covering 58% of the population. This middle gound can be considered Pro-Choice to one degree or another. They have stated they are willing to accept compromise.

Preventing some portion of abortions is better the not preventing any of them.

94 posted on 11/29/2001 1:51:14 PM PST by pcl
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To: Noumenon
Damn straight it is.

This guy has cojones, and speaks with a clear voice and even clearer thinking.

Those are three very rare attributes these days.

L

95 posted on 11/29/2001 1:51:29 PM PST by Lurker
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To: pcl
Well, I hope you're right. We'll see.
96 posted on 11/29/2001 1:54:03 PM PST by walden
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To: walden
When exactly in your opinion is it 'reasonable' to kill someone who hasn't threatened you with violence?

L

97 posted on 11/29/2001 1:56:00 PM PST by Lurker
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To: Lurker
Debate over. Have a nice life. Why don't you go back to lurking?
98 posted on 11/29/2001 1:59:00 PM PST by walden
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To: choirboy
Cunningham said he wasn't after the 20% hardcore pro-aborts.

Consider homosexuals driving trucks with graphic images of heterosexual intercourse with the idea that the images will persuade heterosexuals to become homosexual.

What Cunningham is doing makes as much sense.

99 posted on 11/29/2001 2:02:53 PM PST by pcl
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To: pcl
What Cunningham is doing makes as much sense.

Not really. Most people have no idea what abortion really "looks" like. Perhaps some will understand it better with visual aids.

Heterosexuals already know what heterosexual sex is about.

100 posted on 11/29/2001 2:10:12 PM PST by danneskjold
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