Posted on 11/25/2001 12:58:48 PM PST by CCWoody
You forgot the most modern of the modern-day post-Christian expression. "You're no different the Taliban." I take great joy when I'm the recipeint of that attack. I know the individual is incapable of knowing the truth and thier transference of a deluded religon to me only points out thier ignorance.
Excellent post.
Luke 9:49-50 "...we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbade him, because he followeth not with us. And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us."
From Adam Clarke on Mark 9 (recalling the same event)
Verse 38. We saw one casting out devils in thy name] It can scarcely be supposed that a man who knew nothing of Christ, or who was only a common exorcist, could be able to work a miracle in Christ's name; we may therefore safely imagine that this was either one of John the Baptist's disciples, who, at his master's command, had believed in Jesus, or one of the seventy, whom Christ had sent out, Luke x. 1-7, who, after he had fulfilled his commission, had retired from accompanying the other disciples; but as he still held fast his faith in Christ, and walked in good conscience, the influence of his Master still continued with him, so that he could cast out demons as well as the other disciples.
Jesus' disciples once asked Him to exterminate the people of a "sinful" village by issuing a curse. Jesus rebuked them in Luke 9:52-56, saying "...Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them.
Again from Clarke:
Verse 55. Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.] Ye do not consider that the present is a dispensation of infinite mercy and love; and that the design of God is not to destroy sinners, but to give them space to repent, that he may save them unto eternal life. And ye do not consider that the zeal which you feel springs from an evil principle, being more concerned for your own honour than for the honour of God. The disciples of that Christ who died for his enemies should never think of avenging themselves on their persecutors.
The words, Ye know not of what spirit ye are; for the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them, are wanting in ABCEGHLS-V, and in many others. Griesbach leaves the latter clause out of the text. It is probable that the most ancient MSS. read the passage thus: But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not of what spirit ye are. And they went to another village. See the authorities in GRIESBACH.
The issue here was not that sin is to be ignored or given tacid approval..but rather the condition of the heart of the Christian..Jesus rebuked sin ,but His purpose was to convict the sinner not to condemn him..there is a very big difference..rather like when you tell your 3 year old not to play with matches..Your purpose is to save them from harm not to "judge "them..If you are a nice tolerant parent you might just look the other way.
Even St. Paul espoused tolerance of others. In Romans 14:1-23, he said, "But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ...Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother's way."
From Clarke:
In things indifferent, Christians should not condemn each other, 1. Particularly with respect to different kinds of food, 2-4. And the observation of certain days, 5, 6. None of us should live unto himself, but unto Christ, who lived and died for us, 7-9. We must not judge each other; for all judgment belongs to God, 10-13. We should not do any thing by which a weak brother may be stumbled or grieved; lest we destroy him for whom Christ died, 14-16. The kingdom of God does not consist in outward things, 17, 18. Christians should endeavour to cultivate peace and brotherly affection, and rather deny themselves of certain privileges than be the means of stumbling a weak brother, 19-21. The necessity of doing all in the spirit of faith, 22, 23.
This was not about sin it was about cultural practices that have no impact on ones salvation..it is a family discussion.
And in uncharitible moments, I confess that I sometimes think of Christianity as just a schismatic sect of Judiasm...
In fellowship,
--Boris
You know locke there are so many people that have no beliefs that when they meet people that do ,they do not understand..
It is funny they think they are insulting us.
Just curious: did C. H. Spurgeon ever claim to be a prophet? If so, when and where? If not, by what authority does he say these things?
Of course, Joseph Smith already covered this base.
From Joseph Smith's Commentary on the Bible, p. 9 - 10:
The soul, the immortal spirit of man, [the learned] says [God] created [it] in the beginning. The very idea lessens man in my idea. I don't believe the doctrine. Hear it, all ye ends of the world, for God has told me so. I am going to tell of things more noble. We say that God himself is a self-existing God. Who told you so? How did it get into your head? Who told you that man did not exist in like manner? How does it read in the Hebrew?-- that God made man and put into it Adam's spirit, and so [he] became a living spirit. The mind of man-- the mind of man is as immortal as God himself. Hence, while I talk to these mourners, they are only separated from their bodies for a short period. Their spirits coexisted with God and now converse [with] one another, same as we do. Does not this give you satisfaction? I want to reason more on the spirit of man, for I am dwelling on the body of man, on the subject of the dead. I take my ring from my finger and liken it unto the mind of man, the immortal spirit, because it has no beginning. Suppose you cut it in two. But as the Lord lives, there would be an end. All the fools and wise men from the beginning of creation who say that man had [a] beginning-- they must have an end, and then the doctrine of annihilation would be true. But if I am right, I might with boldness proclaim from the housetop that God never had power to create the spirit of man at all. God himself could not create himself. Intelligence is self-existent. It is a spirit from age to end, and there is no creation about it.
The soul, the mind of man, they say God created it in the beginning. The idea lessens man, in my estimation. [I] don't believe the doctrine [and] know better; God told me so. . . . We say that God was self-existent. Who told you so? It's correct enough, but how did it get into your heads? Who told you that man did not exist upon the same principle? [It] doesn't say so in the old Hebrew. God made man out of the earth and put into him his spirit, and then it became a living body. The mind of man, the intelligent part, is coequal with God himself. I know that my testimony is true. Hence, when I talk to these mourners, what have they lost? They are only separated from their bodies for a short season. But their spirits existed coequal with God, and they now exist in a place where they converse together as much as we do on the earth. Is it logic to say that a spirit is immortal and yet has a beginning? Because if a spirit has a beginning, it will have an end. [That is] good logic. All the fools, learned, and wise men that come and tell that man has a beginning prove that he must have an end. And if that doctrine is true, then the doctrine of annihilation is true. But if I am right, then I might be bold to say that God never did have power to create the spirit of man at all. He could not create himself. Intelligence exists upon a self-existing principle. [It] is a spirit from age to age, and [there is] no creation about it.
The soul, the mind of man, where did it come from? The learned says God made it in the beginning, but it is not so. I know better; God has told me so. If you don't believe it, it won't make the truth without effect. God was a self-existing being; man exists upon the same principle. God made a tabernacle and put a spirit in it, and it became a human soul. Man existed in spirit and mind coequal with God himself. You who mourn the loss of friends are only separated for a moment; the spirit is separated for a little time. They are now conversant with each other as we are on the earth. I am dwelling on the immutability of the spirit of man. Is it logic to say the spirit of man had a beginning and yet had no end? It does not have a beginning or end. My ring is like the existence of man; it has no beginning or end. If cut in two, there would be a beginning and end. So with man; if it had a beginning it will have an end. If I am right, I might say God never had power to create the spirit of man. God himself could not create himself. Intelligence is eternal, and it is self-existing.
Now, if you want to claim that Joseph Smith is a liar for saying that "God has told me so", then that is your prerogative. But you can't nail him on the technicality that the LDS doctrine of eternal progression is flawed because man is different from God in that man is not a self-existent being. Joseph Smith says you're wrong about that. Man's spirit, his "intelligence", is co-eternal with God.
Your post aroused my curiousity. Do you believe that Jesus is divine? Or that he is messiah but still a created being? At what point do you think he became something more than just a man?
I was unaware of this. I watch almost no TV, read no newspapers, haven't seen it in any magazine, and wouldn't see a billboard in your area. Do you have more information about this?
What about the Crusades and the Inquisition? There's no point in saying that it's not fair to bring up examples far in the past when you believe the Bible, written thousands of years ago, should be taken literally. And now we have Christian fanatics who bomb abortion clinics.
You knew the answer..so when the heathan muslim moon god worshipers are thousands of years from their last WTC or Pizza parlor bombing perhaps we can talk..
He was of the Jewish faith but had little tolerance for the self-righteous and exclusive.
Christians have mellowed a bit over the years because Western societies have become secularized over the centuries --which is exactly what fundamentalists want to change. They would bring us back to the Middle Ages or the tribal mentality that existed when the Bible was written. Many in the Middle East still live according to this and we can see the results.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.