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Deep Space Exploration - Looking for Planetary Paydirt
space.com ^ | 14 Nov 01 | Leonard David

Posted on 11/16/2001 1:07:25 PM PST by RightWhale

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As usual they miss most of the major points. They also think small. Their guns are small bore and always will be.
1 posted on 11/16/2001 1:07:25 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: RightWhale
The only way we're going to be able to achieve any of this in our lifetime is by opening it up to private enterprise.
2 posted on 11/16/2001 1:07:29 PM PST by WyldKard
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To: RadioAstronomer; PatrickHenry
solar system bump
3 posted on 11/16/2001 1:07:30 PM PST by longshadow
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To: RightWhale
One could come up with a conspiracy theory concerning the reason we quit going to the moon when linked to helium3. After all, a shuttle load of H3 would power the U.S. for a year. Following is from Space.com on helium 3:

Researchers and space enthusiasts see helium 3 as the perfect fuel source: extremely potent, nonpolluting, with virtually no radioactive by-product. Proponents claim it’s the fuel of the 21st century. The trouble is, hardly any of it is found on Earth. But there is plenty of it on the moon.

Society is straining to keep pace with energy demands, expected to increase eightfold by 2050 as the world population swells toward 12 billion. The moon just may be the answer.

"Helium 3 fusion energy may be the key to future space exploration and settlement," said Gerald Kulcinski, Director of the Fusion Technology Institute (FTI) at the University of Wisconsin at Madison.

Scientists estimate there are about 1 million tons of helium 3 on the moon, enough to power the world for thousands of years. The equivalent of a single space shuttle load or roughly 25 tons could supply the entire United States' energy needs for a year, according to Apollo17 astronaut and FTI researcher Harrison Schmitt.

4 posted on 11/16/2001 1:07:44 PM PST by Lokibob
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To: longshadow
I think the working conditions of an asteroid miner would be rather harsh; but if the payoff is going to be tremendous, it would be worth it. I'd rather be an investor than a miner, however.
5 posted on 11/16/2001 1:08:05 PM PST by PatrickHenry
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To: *Space
Index.
6 posted on 11/16/2001 1:08:46 PM PST by Brett66
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To: RightWhale
They do think small, just like you said. None of the toys that they envision can provide the mass tonnage neccessary to build large space hotels,manufacturing facilities or SPS's in space. Such structures demand ET mining. The economics would be almost impossible to justify if we ship the materials from Earth unless launch costs are driven down to less than $10/lb.
7 posted on 11/16/2001 1:09:19 PM PST by Brett66
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To: PatrickHenry
I'd rather be an investor than a miner, however.

Look at the bright side: in the absence of an atmosphere, mine explosions will be a thing of the past, and the risk of "Miner's Lung" disease will be zreo.

And, they won't need to take canaries with them....

8 posted on 11/16/2001 1:09:35 PM PST by longshadow
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To: longshadow
Look at the bright side: in the absence of an atmosphere ...

Yes, but think of the consequences of a gastric disturbance while sealed in a pressure suit.

9 posted on 11/16/2001 1:09:40 PM PST by PatrickHenry
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To: PatrickHenry
I think the working conditions of an asteroid miner would be rather harsh

Here's a perceptual problem due to too many movies. It would be more like working in the control room of a modern nuclear power plant. It might even be boring unless you like to do tedious things such as taking math classes for fun. The hard part for some workers is the trip out and back, especially the ones who do their entire career on one ship on one mission. 16 years alone, or even worse, with a small group.

-Captain, we have met and decided we don't like your decision to unfurl the solar panels at 25 degrees to the ecliptic. The shadow is blocking the sundeck.

-Hear this, crew, this is not a democracy. Return to your assigned duties immediately.

-Well, Captain, we hereby remove you from authority over this mining ship and the claim.

-Fine with me, crew, but you will miss those special dumplings on Sundays, won't you.

((Crew confers))

-Captain, we have decided that since you appear willing to take your dumplings recipe with you to the grave, that we, the crew, will tolerate your continued captaincy. Be aware, dumplings is the only thing we like about you. Tyrant.


And that was just week No. one after leaving moon base.
10 posted on 11/16/2001 1:09:40 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: PatrickHenry
Yes, but think of the consequences of a gastric disturbance while sealed in a pressure suit.

Side story time: this is not a new problem. Astronauts, and aviators operating aircraft at very high altitudes (and thus wearing space suits), have long had to face this problem. Hence the "standard" breakfast prior to flight for such personnel: steak and eggs.

In space, flatus is NOT your friend.

11 posted on 11/16/2001 1:09:50 PM PST by longshadow
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To: WyldKard
opening it up to private enterprise.

Give me NASA for 4 years, and you will have your space transportation system and your business environment. Right-of-way railroad grants opened the West, if you need a hint where I am going with this.

12 posted on 11/16/2001 1:09:52 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: Lokibob
The helium-3 thing is a lot of snake-oil.

First, yes there is 3He on the Moon. It's present at about the one part per billion level. You have to heat the soil to about 700 degrees C to drive off the 3He -- that several megawatts per ton of heating dirt. To be charitable, let's assume that you use focusing mirrors to capture "free" solar thermal radiation. You then have to collect it, isotopically separate the 3He, cyrogenically freeze it, store it, and transport it back to Earth.

But when you get it home, then what? We haven't achieved D-T fusion above breakeven yet, let alone D-3He fusion (which is about an order of magnitude more difficult). Commercial fusion power is like the end of the rainbow -- it's always "just around the corner." So, you're stuck with several tons of 3He, which I guess is useful to fill balloon animals with.

A much more proactical way to get energy from the Moon is to make solar panels on the surface using local materials and lay out solar arrays on the surface. Then, beam the electrical power back to Earth using microwaves of lasers. Basically, the Solar Power satellite idea, without the enormous launch costs associated with that concept.

13 posted on 11/16/2001 1:09:53 PM PST by Cincinatus
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To: Cincinatus
Ooops! "using microwaves OR lasers"
14 posted on 11/16/2001 1:09:56 PM PST by Cincinatus
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To: RightWhale
Give me NASA for 4 years, and you will have your space transportation system and your business environment. Right-of-way railroad grants opened the West, if you need a hint where I am going with this.

Hmmmm....point taken.
15 posted on 11/16/2001 1:10:42 PM PST by WyldKard
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To: Cincinatus
to get energy from the Moon

I'll just mention this, an old idea in the FR archives.


Power generated on the moon or in space would be best used locally. Move power-hog industries such as aluminum and steel into space. This would do 4 things at once:

reduces power consumption on earth;
the nasty Kyoto agreement is mooted;
hastens development of space mineral resources;
more of earth's real estate may be zoned residential rather than heavy industry.

16 posted on 11/16/2001 1:10:59 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: RightWhale; All
Think of what kind of solar furnace you could construct. You would not even have the atmospheric contaminants to deal with.

There was a book written a few years ago called the "High Frontier" which delved into this subject (including mining the asteroids) quite thoroughly.

17 posted on 11/16/2001 1:12:29 PM PST by RadioAstronomer
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To: RadioAstronomer
O'Neill [sp] was one of my asteroid mining gurus. I call space the "Endless Frontier" so as not to step on his "High Frontier". I did an economic analysis, lack of which seemed at the time to be a gap in the dreaming and planning. As a result I am very upbeat on the potential economic return of asteroid mining, but not on many of the other space development ideas.
18 posted on 11/16/2001 1:12:39 PM PST by RightWhale
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To: RightWhale
This is why I advocated "lunar base" as one of the top 5 projects on the other thread. The infrastructure required to support it would directly lead to further uses of our solar system including asteroid mining.
19 posted on 11/16/2001 1:12:48 PM PST by RadioAstronomer
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To: RadioAstronomer
If I were king for a day I'd say, "And it shall be so."
20 posted on 11/16/2001 1:13:32 PM PST by RightWhale
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